Fwd: [MacPorts] #14342: python25 drops modules by default, but python25 doesn't
# Moving from Trac ticket #14342
No, py25-foo can have different dependencies than py-foo. I don't know what you wanted to tell us with this.
I meant if we would change python24 to drop some standard modules like the current python25 port does, py-foo and py25-foo's dependencies would be the same. Not sure this is 100% same but almost the same I assume.
And there is no problem that we have more py-* ports than py25-* ports. We just add what people request. If nobody needs a port, but it is in the tree, it is just more work for maintainers. So if you need some port, ask for it.
No problem, but Python project now recommend users to use python2.5, not 2.4. Providing a lot of ports to python25 users would encourage users to use python2.5. Some people don't bother to write reports even if they want. I like to add more py25- ports to make python25 looks more *atrractive*. Forwarded Conversation Subject: [MacPorts] #14342: python25 drops modules by default, but python25 doesn't ------------------------ From: MacPorts <trac@macosforge.org> Reply-To: noreply@macosforge.org To: ebgssth@gmail.com, macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Cc: mww@macports.org Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 11:51 AM #14342: python25 drops modules by default, but python25 doesn't -------------------------------+-------------------------------------------- Reporter: ebgssth@gmail.com | Owner: macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Port Enhancements Component: ports | Version: 1.6.0 Keywords: python | -------------------------------+-------------------------------------------- Python2.5 disables common modules by default, but python2.4 doesn't. See dports/lang/python25/files/patch-setup.py {{{ # This global variable is used to hold the list of modules to be disabled. -disabled_module_list = [] +disabled_module_list = ["zlib","_hashlib","_ssl","_bsddb","_sqlite3","_tkinter","bz2","gdbm","readline","_curses","_curses_panel"] }}} IMHO, all python pors should be as similar as they can be. -- Ticket URL: <http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/macports/ticket/14342> MacPorts </projects/macports> Ports system for Mac OS -------- From: MacPorts <trac@macosforge.org> Reply-To: noreply@macosforge.org To: ebgssth@gmail.com, macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Cc: mww@macports.org Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 11:52 AM #14342: python25 drops modules by default, but python25 doesn't --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Reporter: ebgssth@gmail.com | Owner: macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Port Enhancements Component: ports | Version: 1.6.0 Resolution: | Keywords: python --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Comment (by ebgssth@gmail.com): If there's a reason, please make it clear by leaving comments about that on the patch file. -- Ticket URL: <http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/macports/ticket/14342#comment:1> [Quoted text hidden] -------- From: MacPorts <trac@macosforge.org> Reply-To: noreply@macosforge.org To: ebgssth@gmail.com, macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Cc: mww@macports.org Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 12:02 PM #14342: python25 drops modules by default, but python25 doesn't --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Reporter: ebgssth@gmail.com | Owner: macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Port Enhancements Component: ports | Version: 1.6.0 Resolution: | Keywords: python --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Comment (by raimue@macports.org): These are provided as seperate ports. For example py25-hashlib, py25-zlib and others. I don't know what the advantage of that was, but we already had that discussion once. Portfile writers should include correct dependencies. -- Ticket URL: <http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/macports/ticket/14342#comment:2> [Quoted text hidden] -------- From: MacPorts <trac@macosforge.org> Reply-To: noreply@macosforge.org To: ebgssth@gmail.com, macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Cc: mww@macports.org Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 12:18 PM #14342: python25 drops modules by default, but python25 doesn't --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Reporter: ebgssth@gmail.com | Owner: macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Port Enhancements Component: ports | Version: 1.6.0 Resolution: | Keywords: python --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Comment (by ebgssth@gmail.com): I think that's OK, but the thing is python24 doesn't drop these modules. It's a weird... -- Ticket URL: <http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/macports/ticket/14342#comment:3> [Quoted text hidden] -------- From: MacPorts <trac@macosforge.org> Reply-To: noreply@macosforge.org To: ebgssth@gmail.com, macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Cc: mww@macports.org Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 12:44 PM #14342: python25 drops modules by default, but python25 doesn't --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Reporter: ebgssth@gmail.com | Owner: macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Port Enhancements Component: ports | Version: 1.6.0 Resolution: | Keywords: python --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Comment (by raimue@macports.org): If we were going to change this, it would require to change dependencies in nearly all py-* ports. -- Ticket URL: <http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/macports/ticket/14342#comment:4> [Quoted text hidden] -------- From: MacPorts <trac@macosforge.org> Reply-To: noreply@macosforge.org To: ebgssth@gmail.com, macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Cc: mww@macports.org Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 1:59 PM #14342: python25 drops modules by default, but python25 doesn't --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Reporter: ebgssth@gmail.com | Owner: macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Port Enhancements Component: ports | Version: 1.6.0 Resolution: | Keywords: python --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Comment (by ebgssth@gmail.com): Replying to [comment:4 raimue@macports.org]:
If we were going to change this, it would require to change dependencies in nearly all py-* ports.
Yes, we probably have to check py-ports that was not in py25 ports {{{ $ port list |egrep -i '^py-' | cut -d" " -f1 | sort -u > py24 $ port list |egrep -i '^py25-' | cut -d" " -f1 | sed 's/^py25/py/' | sort -u > py25 $ wc -l py2[45] 338 py24 109 py25 447 total $ comm -2 -3 py24 py25 > py24-only $ wc -l py24-only 259 py24-only }}} How about create py25- ports of all 259 py24 only ports? To create py25-ports, we need to know the port need zlib or hashlib, which helps identify this py24 ports should be fixed. -- Ticket URL: <http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/macports/ticket/14342#comment:5> [Quoted text hidden] -------- From: MacPorts <trac@macosforge.org> Reply-To: noreply@macosforge.org To: ebgssth@gmail.com, macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Cc: mww@macports.org Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 6:27 PM #14342: python25 drops modules by default, but python25 doesn't --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Reporter: ebgssth@gmail.com | Owner: macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Port Enhancements Component: ports | Version: 1.6.0 Resolution: | Keywords: python --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Comment (by ebgssth@gmail.com): From a different point of view, that MacPorts has lots more python2.4 ports than python2.5's seems weird to me. (Python 2.5 is the current stable, Python 2.4 series will be no longer released anymore) Should I open another ticket about this problem? -- Ticket URL: <http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/macports/ticket/14342#comment:6> [Quoted text hidden] -------- From: MacPorts <trac@macosforge.org> Reply-To: noreply@macosforge.org To: ebgssth@gmail.com, macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Cc: mww@macports.org Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 9:33 PM #14342: python25 drops modules by default, but python25 doesn't --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Reporter: ebgssth@gmail.com | Owner: macports-tickets@lists.macosforge.org Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Port Enhancements Component: ports | Version: 1.6.0 Resolution: | Keywords: python --------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Comment (by raimue@macports.org): Replying to [comment:5 ebgssth@gmail.com]:
Yes, we probably have to check py-ports that was not in py25 ports
No, py25-foo can have different dependencies than py-foo. I don't know what you wanted to tell us with this. And there is no problem that we have more py-* ports than py25-* ports. We just add what people request. If nobody needs a port, but it is in the tree, it is just more work for maintainers. So if you need some port, ask for it. PS: This kind of discussion would have been better on the mailing list. -- Ticket URL: <http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/macports/ticket/14342#comment:7> [Quoted text hidden] --------
Just out of curiosity, could you tell me why default python25 drops those modoles?
There seems to be few people who is interested in this issue :( I really love to fix this for consistency. If somebody asked, I'd do create py25-ports which already exist for python24. python25 should be more used than python24. The more modules python25 has, the more people likely to use python25 I assume..
On 18 Feb 2008, at 17:27, Rainer Müller wrote:
js wrote:
Just out of curiosity, could you tell me why default python25 drops those modoles?
I really don't know it, Markus will know more about it.
does not compute: "python25 drops but python25 doesn't" -- contradiction detected. ;) If the question was why python25 does not build all auxiliary modules [1] like _sqlite3 etc.: For people who don't need e.g. tk-support, building all those dependencies is unnecessary. We had this discussion of which modules would be cool to include by default and which not to already. Conclusion was that either we rename python25 to python25-core and make a "virtual" port python25 that requires all modules+python25-core OR to make a python25-all (or whatever) port that collects all "cool" modules by dependency. The former sucks because we would need to change a lot of dependencies and the latter never made it into the repository because nobody cared enough. If someone is keen on getting the former to work: Please fix all dependencies!!! (And please also make this consistent for 2.4 and 3.0) Regards, -Markus [1] http://trac.macports.org/projects/macports/wiki/FAQ#WhycantIimportfooinPytho... -- Dipl. Inf. (FH) Markus W. Weissmann http://www.macports.org/ http://www.mweissmann.de/
On Feb 18, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Markus Weissmann wrote:
For people who don't need e.g. tk-support, building all those dependencies is unnecessary.
Yes! And for those who are banging on a 64-bit Python, we can't touch anything that uses a Carbon API. Like Tk. Has anyone successfully built a 64-bit version of Python 2.5.1 on Macintosh? - boyd Boyd Waters National Radio Astronomy Observaotory New Mexico, USA, Earth
Hi Markus,
does not compute: "python25 drops but python25 doesn't" -- contradiction detected. ;)
Oops! That's typo. My question was why python2.4 and 2.5 is different.
If the question was why python25 does not build all auxiliary modules [1] like _sqlite3 etc.: For people who don't need e.g. tk-support, building all those dependencies is unnecessary. We had this discussion of which modules would be cool to include by default and which not to already. Conclusion was that either we rename python25 to python25-core and make a "virtual" port python25 that requires all modules+python25-core OR to make a python25-all (or whatever) port that collects all "cool" modules by dependency. The former sucks because we would need to change a lot of dependencies and the latter never made it into the repository because nobody cared enough. If someone is keen on getting the former to work: Please fix all dependencies!!! (And please also make this consistent for 2.4 and 3.0)
Thanks for thorough explanation. That makes sense. The reason why I started this discussion is that I want to make python24 to be python25-like port. What if I created patches for this, Would you accept that changes? As for python25's design you brought up, I prefer the former, which apparently not your favorite :) The former reminds me of Debian/GNU Linux's "python" package. The python package is a dependency package which depends on "default python", python2.4 and python-minimal. Any chance making this changes? To be honest, I also want to change py- prefix ports to py24- but this plan is rejected recently...
On 20 Feb 2008, at 15:48, js wrote:
Hi Markus,
does not compute: "python25 drops but python25 doesn't" -- contradiction detected. ;)
Oops! That's typo. My question was why python2.4 and 2.5 is different.
If the question was why python25 does not build all auxiliary modules [1] like _sqlite3 etc.: For people who don't need e.g. tk-support, building all those dependencies is unnecessary. We had this discussion of which modules would be cool to include by default and which not to already. Conclusion was that either we rename python25 to python25-core and make a "virtual" port python25 that requires all modules+python25-core OR to make a python25-all (or whatever) port that collects all "cool" modules by dependency. The former sucks because we would need to change a lot of dependencies and the latter never made it into the repository because nobody cared enough. If someone is keen on getting the former to work: Please fix all dependencies!!! (And please also make this consistent for 2.4 and 3.0)
Thanks for thorough explanation. That makes sense. The reason why I started this discussion is that I want to make python24 to be python25-like port. What if I created patches for this, Would you accept that changes?
well, what else do you want to change? There already are py-bsddb, py- readline, .. which provide modules not build by default (by the python24 port).
As for python25's design you brought up, I prefer the former, which apparently not your favorite :) The former reminds me of Debian/GNU Linux's "python" package. The python package is a dependency package which depends on "default python", python2.4 and python-minimal. Any chance making this changes?
If you _really_ don't bother which python you end up with (and it doesn't matter if that changes), then you can use the "python_select: port to do just that. It basically provides symlinks to the real executables which you can change by calling python_select(1). Attention: If your port makes note of the exact location of you python executable, this might create an implicit dependency (which will cause breakage if you uninstall the "wrong" python)
To be honest, I also want to change py- prefix ports to py24- but this plan is rejected recently...
Rejected? Most probably due to the amount of work on both the project and the users' side. I think this would be cool, but if someone tackles this: Do a single commit on _all_ renamed ports and ports that depend on those AND write a mail to macports-users@ AND put something on the FAQ how to handle potential breakage. Regards, -Markus -- Dipl. Inf. (FH) Markus W. Weissmann http://www.macports.org/ http://www.mweissmann.de/
Thanks for thorough explanation. That makes sense. The reason why I started this discussion is that I want to make python24 to be python25-like port. What if I created patches for this, Would you accept that changes?
well, what else do you want to change? There already are py-bsddb, py- readline, .. which provide modules not build by default (by the python24 port).
I'd like to drop modules from python24 the same way python25 do currently. This would help writing Portfile for python2[45] easier.
If you _really_ don't bother which python you end up with (and it doesn't matter if that changes), then you can use the "python_select: port to do just that. It basically provides symlinks to the real executables which you can change by calling python_select(1). Attention: If your port makes note of the exact location of you python executable, this might create an implicit dependency (which will cause breakage if you uninstall the "wrong" python)
No, I don't want default python on MacPorts. Explicit python24 and python25 would be clearer. just wanted to say python-minimal + py25-* ports would be nice.
To be honest, I also want to change py- prefix ports to py24- but this plan is rejected recently...
Rejected? Most probably due to the amount of work on both the project and the users' side. I think this would be cool, but if someone tackles this: Do a single commit on _all_ renamed ports and ports that depend on those AND write a mail to macports-users@ AND put something on the FAQ how to handle potential breakage.
If I prepared patches for this, would you bother to review/accept them?
Apparently more people like this change. I'll get back to trac ticket and start working on this. On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 12:39 AM, js <ebgssth@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for thorough explanation. That makes sense. The reason why I started this discussion is that I want to make python24 to be python25-like port. What if I created patches for this, Would you accept that changes?
well, what else do you want to change? There already are py-bsddb, py- readline, .. which provide modules not build by default (by the python24 port).
I'd like to drop modules from python24 the same way python25 do currently. This would help writing Portfile for python2[45] easier.
If you _really_ don't bother which python you end up with (and it doesn't matter if that changes), then you can use the "python_select: port to do just that. It basically provides symlinks to the real executables which you can change by calling python_select(1). Attention: If your port makes note of the exact location of you python executable, this might create an implicit dependency (which will cause breakage if you uninstall the "wrong" python)
No, I don't want default python on MacPorts. Explicit python24 and python25 would be clearer. just wanted to say python-minimal + py25-* ports would be nice.
To be honest, I also want to change py- prefix ports to py24- but this plan is rejected recently...
Rejected? Most probably due to the amount of work on both the project and the users' side. I think this would be cool, but if someone tackles this: Do a single commit on _all_ renamed ports and ports that depend on those AND write a mail to macports-users@ AND put something on the FAQ how to handle potential breakage.
If I prepared patches for this, would you bother to review/accept them?
participants (4)
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Boyd Waters
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js
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Markus Weissmann
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Rainer Müller