I'm trying to switch from Fink to Macports cause it has much newer ports (thanks for that) and am trying to get gnome to install on a fresh install of Macports 1.52 (note that I've moved fink out of the way). Here are some of the issues I've run into (note that the first two I've found workarounds for but the 3rd is a stopper). I'm on a PowerBook G4, OS X 10.4.10, XCode 2.4.1. 1. esound issues: esound wouldn't install cause the configure script just ends w/o doing anything. There have been several other people having the same problem in the last few days on the Macports-Users board. I discovered that making the esound port skip the autoconf allows it to install (i.e., I did sudo port edit esound and switched the use_autoconf line from yes to no). I'm not sure if this is the correct way to fix it but if it is it should corrected at the Macports end. 2. gnome-applets issues: the gnome-applets configure script dies trying to satisfy python >= 2.4. I had python2.5 installed (by some port) but this was not good enough. So I installed python2.4 and gnome-applets would install. If this is correct then python2.4 should be added as a dependency. Otherwise the configure script should be fixed to detect python2.5 correctly. 3. seahorse: This is presently a stopper for me. Doing: bash$ sudo port clean seahorse ---> Cleaning seahorse sudo port clean seahorse bash$ sudo port -dv install seahorse DEBUG: Found port in file:///opt/local/var/macports/sources/rsync.macports.org/release/ports/gnome/seahorse DEBUG: Changing to port directory: /opt/local/var/macports/sources/rsync.macports.org/release/ports/gnome/seahorse LOTS OF LINES DELETED /bin/sh ../../libtool --tag=CC --mode=link gcc -O2 -L/opt/local/lib -lpth -o seahorse-preferences seahorse-pgp-preferences.o../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a ../../libcryptui/libcryptui.la -Wl,-framework,CoreAudio -L/opt/local/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lgnomeui-2 -lbonoboui-2 -lgnome-keyring -lgnomecanvas-2 -lgnome-2 -lpopt -lart_lgpl_2 - lpangoft2-1.0 -lesd -lbonobo-2 -laudiofile -lbonobo-activation -lglade-2.0-lxml2 -lpthread - lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -ltiff -ljpeg - lpangocairo-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lcairo -lSM -lICE -lfreetype -lz -lfontconfig -lexpat -lpng12 -lXrender -lX11 -lgnomevfs-2 -lgconf-2 -lORBit-2 -lm - lgmodule-2.0 -lgthread-2.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lglib-2.0 -lintl -liconv -L/opt/local/lib -lgpgme -L/opt/local/lib -lgpg-error -lldap -L/opt/local/lib -lsoup-2.2 -lglib-2.0 -lintl -lxml2 -lpthread -lz -liconv -lm -L/opt/local/lib -lgnome-keyring -lglib-2.0 -lintl -liconv -L/opt/local/lib -lavahi-common -lavahi-client -lavahi-glib -lglib-2.0-lintl -liconv -L/opt/local/lib -ldbus-glib-1 -ldbus-1 - lgobject-2.0 -lglib-2.0 -lintl -liconv mkdir .libs gcc -O2 -o .libs/seahorse-preferences seahorse-pgp-preferences.o-Wl,-framework -Wl,CoreAudio -L/opt/local/lib ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a ../../libcryptui/.libs/libcryptui.dylib /opt/local/lib/libpth.dylib -L/usr/X11R6/lib /opt/local/lib/libgnomeui- 2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libbonoboui-2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgnomecanvas- 2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgnome-2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libpopt.dylib /opt/local/lib/libart_lgpl_2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libesd.dylib /opt/local/lib/libbonobo-2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libaudiofile.dylib /opt/local/lib/libbonobo-activation.dylib /opt/local/lib/libORBitCosNaming- 2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libglade-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgtk- x11-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libatk- 1.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.dylib/opt/local/lib/libtiff.dylib /opt/local/lib/libjpeg.dylib /opt/local/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.dylib/opt/local/lib/libpango- 1.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libcairo.dylib -lSM -lICE /opt/local/lib/libfontconfig.dylib /opt/local/lib/libfreetype.dylib /opt/local/lib/libexpat.dylib /opt/local/lib/libpng12.dylib /opt/local/lib/libXrender.dylib -lX11 /opt/local/lib/libgnomevfs-2.dylib-lssl -lcrypto /opt/local/lib/libhowl.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgconf- 2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libORBit-2.dylib -lresolv /opt/local/lib/libgmodule- 2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgpgme.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgpg-error.dylib-lldap /opt/local/lib/libsoup- 2.2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgthread-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libxml2.dylib -lpthread -lz -lm /opt/local/lib/libgnome-keyring.dylib/opt/local/lib/libavahi- client.dylib -ldl /opt/local/lib/libavahi-glib.dylib/opt/local/lib/libavahi- common.dylib /opt/local/lib/libdbus-glib-1.dylib /opt/local/lib/libdbus- 1.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgobject-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib/opt/local/lib/libintl.dylib -lc /opt/local/lib/libiconv.dylib /usr/bin/ld: warning prebinding disabled because dependent library: /opt/local/lib/libcryptui.0.dylib is not prebound /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_free /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_free ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_free in section (__TEXT,__text) /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_malloc /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_malloc ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_malloc in section (__TEXT,__text) /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_malloc0 /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_malloc0 ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_malloc0 in section (__TEXT,__text) /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_realloc /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_realloc ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_realloc in section (__TEXT,__text) collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[3]: *** [seahorse-preferences] Error 1 make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make: *** [all] Error 2 Warning: the following items did not execute (for seahorse): org.macports.activate org.macports.build org.macports.destroot org.macports.install Error: Status 1 encountered during processing. bash$ Does anyone have any idea to fix this? Thanks, Bob
GNOME 2.20 is beginning to be released and will be completely released by the end of the month. Please have some patience. Note also that the GNOME port and the gnome-*-suite ports do not install anything, but simply rely on a number of other ports, so you should be able to pick through ports while we work on these issues to get a mostly working GNOME installation. On 15 Sep 2007, at 12:44, bob spamnot wrote:
I'm trying to switch from Fink to Macports cause it has much newer ports (thanks for that) and am trying to get gnome to install on a fresh install of Macports 1.52 (note that I've moved fink out of the way). Here are some of the issues I've run into (note that the first two I've found workarounds for but the 3rd is a stopper). I'm on a PowerBook G4, OS X 10.4.10 , XCode 2.4.1.
1. esound issues: esound wouldn't install cause the configure script just ends w/o doing anything. There have been several other people having the same problem in the last few days on the Macports- Users board. I discovered that making the esound port skip the autoconf allows it to install ( i.e., I did sudo port edit esound and switched the use_autoconf line from yes to no). I'm not sure if this is the correct way to fix it but if it is it should corrected at the Macports end.
2. gnome-applets issues: the gnome-applets configure script dies trying to satisfy python >= 2.4. I had python2.5 installed (by some port) but this was not good enough. So I installed python2.4 and gnome-applets would install. If this is correct then python2.4 should be added as a dependency. Otherwise the configure script should be fixed to detect python2.5 correctly.
3. seahorse: This is presently a stopper for me. Doing:
bash$ sudo port clean seahorse ---> Cleaning seahorse sudo port clean seahorse bash$ sudo port -dv install seahorse DEBUG: Found port in file:///opt/local/var/macports/sources/ rsync.macports.org/release/ports/gnome/seahorse DEBUG: Changing to port directory: /opt/local/var/macports/sources/ rsync.macports.org/release/ports/gnome/seahorse
LOTS OF LINES DELETED
/bin/sh ../../libtool --tag=CC --mode=link gcc -O2 -L/opt/local/ lib -lpth -o seahorse-preferences seahorse-pgp-preferences.o ../../ libseahorse/libseahorse.a ../../libcryptui/libcryptui.la -Wl,- framework,CoreAudio -L/opt/local/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lgnomeui-2 - lbonoboui-2 -lgnome-keyring -lgnomecanvas-2 -lgnome-2 -lpopt - lart_lgpl_2 - lpangoft2-1.0 -lesd -lbonobo-2 -laudiofile -lbonobo- activation -lglade-2.0 -lxml2 -lpthread -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -ltiff -ljpeg -lpangocairo-1.0 - lpango-1.0 -lcairo -lSM -lICE -lfreetype -lz -lfontconfig -lexpat - lpng12 -lXrender -lX11 -lgnomevfs-2 -lgconf-2 -lORBit-2 -lm - lgmodule-2.0 -lgthread-2.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lglib-2.0 -lintl - liconv -L/opt/local/lib -lgpgme -L/opt/local/lib -lgpg-error - lldap -L/opt/local/lib -lsoup-2.2 -lglib-2.0 -lintl -lxml2 - lpthread -lz -liconv -lm -L/opt/local/lib -lgnome-keyring - lglib-2.0 -lintl -liconv -L/opt/local/lib -lavahi-common -lavahi- client -lavahi-glib -lglib-2.0 -lintl -liconv -L/opt/local/lib - ldbus-glib-1 -ldbus-1 -lgobject-2.0 -lglib-2.0 -lintl -liconv mkdir .libs gcc -O2 -o .libs/seahorse-preferences seahorse-pgp-preferences.o - Wl,-framework -Wl,CoreAudio -L/opt/local/lib ../../libseahorse/ libseahorse.a ../../libcryptui/.libs/libcryptui.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libpth.dylib -L/usr/X11R6/lib /opt/local/lib/ libgnomeui-2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libbonoboui-2.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libgnomecanvas-2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgnome-2.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libpopt.dylib /opt/local/lib/libart_lgpl_2.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libesd.dylib /opt/local/lib/libbonobo- 2.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libaudiofile.dylib /opt/local/lib/libbonobo-activation.dylib / opt/local/lib/libORBitCosNaming-2.dylib /opt/local/lib/ libglade-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libatk-1.0.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libtiff.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libjpeg.dylib /opt/local/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libpangoft2-1.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libpango- 1.0.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libcairo.dylib -lSM -lICE /opt/local/lib/ libfontconfig.dylib /opt/local/lib/libfreetype.dylib /opt/local/lib/ libexpat.dylib /opt/local/lib/libpng12.dylib /opt/local/lib/ libXrender.dylib -lX11 /opt/local/lib/libgnomevfs- 2.dylib -lssl - lcrypto /opt/local/lib/libhowl.dylib /opt/local/lib/ libgconf-2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libORBit-2.dylib -lresolv /opt/ local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgpgme.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libgpg-error.dylib -lldap /opt/local/lib/ libsoup-2.2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgthread-2.0.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libxml2.dylib -lpthread -lz -lm /opt/local/lib/libgnome- keyring.dylib /opt/local/lib/libavahi-client.dylib -ldl /opt/local/ lib/libavahi- glib.dylib /opt/local/lib/libavahi-common.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libdbus-glib-1.dylib /opt/local/lib/libdbus-1.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libgobject-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib / opt/local/lib/libintl.dylib -lc /opt/local/lib/libiconv.dylib /usr/bin/ld: warning prebinding disabled because dependent library: /opt/local/lib/libcryptui.0.dylib is not prebound /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_free /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_free ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_free in section (__TEXT,__text) /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_malloc /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_malloc ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_malloc in section (__TEXT,__text) /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_malloc0 /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_malloc0 ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_malloc0 in section (__TEXT,__text) /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_realloc /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_realloc ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_realloc in section (__TEXT,__text) collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[3]: *** [seahorse-preferences] Error 1 make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make: *** [all] Error 2
Warning: the following items did not execute (for seahorse): org.macports.activate org.macports.build org.macports.destroot org.macports.install Error: Status 1 encountered during processing. bash$
Does anyone have any idea to fix this?
Thanks, Bob
_______________________________________________ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Randall Wood rhwood@mac.com http://shyramblings.blogspot.com "The rules are simple: The ball is round. The game lasts 90 minutes. All the rest is just philosophy."
On 15 Sep 2007, at 12:44, bob spamnot wrote:
1. esound issues: esound wouldn't install cause the configure script just ends w/o doing anything. There have been several other people having the same problem in the last few days on the Macports- Users board. I discovered that making the esound port skip the autoconf allows it to install ( i.e., I did sudo port edit esound and switched the use_autoconf line from yes to no). I'm not sure if this is the correct way to fix it but if it is it should corrected at the Macports end.
esound was fixed two days ago. (http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/ macports/changeset/29050) You should do frequent "sudo port selfupdate" operations while trying to work through these issues. Randall Wood rhwood@mac.com http://shyramblings.blogspot.com "The rules are simple: The ball is round. The game lasts 90 minutes. All the rest is just philosophy."
OK. On 9/15/07, Randall Wood <rhwood@mac.com> wrote:
GNOME 2.20 is beginning to be released and will be completely released by the end of the month. Please have some patience. Note also that the GNOME port and the gnome-*-suite ports do not install anything, but simply rely on a number of other ports, so you should be able to pick through ports while we work on these issues to get a mostly working GNOME installation.
On 15 Sep 2007, at 12:44, bob spamnot wrote:
I'm trying to switch from Fink to Macports cause it has much newer ports (thanks for that) and am trying to get gnome to install on a fresh install of Macports 1.52 (note that I've moved fink out of the way). Here are some of the issues I've run into (note that the first two I've found workarounds for but the 3rd is a stopper). I'm on a PowerBook G4, OS X 10.4.10 , XCode 2.4.1.
1. esound issues: esound wouldn't install cause the configure script just ends w/o doing anything. There have been several other people having the same problem in the last few days on the Macports- Users board. I discovered that making the esound port skip the autoconf allows it to install ( i.e., I did sudo port edit esound and switched the use_autoconf line from yes to no). I'm not sure if this is the correct way to fix it but if it is it should corrected at the Macports end.
2. gnome-applets issues: the gnome-applets configure script dies trying to satisfy python >= 2.4. I had python2.5 installed (by some port) but this was not good enough. So I installed python2.4 and gnome-applets would install. If this is correct then python2.4 should be added as a dependency. Otherwise the configure script should be fixed to detect python2.5 correctly.
3. seahorse: This is presently a stopper for me. Doing:
bash$ sudo port clean seahorse ---> Cleaning seahorse sudo port clean seahorse bash$ sudo port -dv install seahorse DEBUG: Found port in file:///opt/local/var/macports/sources/ rsync.macports.org/release/ports/gnome/seahorse DEBUG: Changing to port directory: /opt/local/var/macports/sources/ rsync.macports.org/release/ports/gnome/seahorse
LOTS OF LINES DELETED
/bin/sh ../../libtool --tag=CC --mode=link gcc -O2 -L/opt/local/ lib -lpth -o seahorse-preferences seahorse-pgp-preferences.o ../../ libseahorse/libseahorse.a ../../libcryptui/libcryptui.la -Wl,- framework,CoreAudio -L/opt/local/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lgnomeui-2 - lbonoboui-2 -lgnome-keyring -lgnomecanvas-2 -lgnome-2 -lpopt - lart_lgpl_2 - lpangoft2-1.0 -lesd -lbonobo-2 -laudiofile -lbonobo- activation -lglade-2.0 -lxml2 -lpthread -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -ltiff -ljpeg -lpangocairo-1.0 - lpango-1.0 -lcairo -lSM -lICE -lfreetype -lz -lfontconfig -lexpat - lpng12 -lXrender -lX11 -lgnomevfs-2 -lgconf-2 -lORBit-2 -lm - lgmodule-2.0 -lgthread-2.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lglib-2.0 -lintl - liconv -L/opt/local/lib -lgpgme -L/opt/local/lib -lgpg-error - lldap -L/opt/local/lib -lsoup-2.2 -lglib-2.0 -lintl -lxml2 - lpthread -lz -liconv -lm -L/opt/local/lib -lgnome-keyring - lglib-2.0 -lintl -liconv -L/opt/local/lib -lavahi-common -lavahi- client -lavahi-glib -lglib-2.0 -lintl -liconv -L/opt/local/lib - ldbus-glib-1 -ldbus-1 -lgobject-2.0 -lglib-2.0 -lintl -liconv mkdir .libs gcc -O2 -o .libs/seahorse-preferences seahorse-pgp-preferences.o - Wl,-framework -Wl,CoreAudio -L/opt/local/lib ../../libseahorse/ libseahorse.a ../../libcryptui/.libs/libcryptui.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libpth.dylib -L/usr/X11R6/lib /opt/local/lib/ libgnomeui-2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libbonoboui-2.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libgnomecanvas-2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgnome-2.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libpopt.dylib /opt/local/lib/libart_lgpl_2.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libesd.dylib /opt/local/lib/libbonobo- 2.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libaudiofile.dylib /opt/local/lib/libbonobo-activation.dylib / opt/local/lib/libORBitCosNaming-2.dylib /opt/local/lib/ libglade-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libatk-1.0.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libtiff.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libjpeg.dylib /opt/local/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libpangoft2-1.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libpango- 1.0.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libcairo.dylib -lSM -lICE /opt/local/lib/ libfontconfig.dylib /opt/local/lib/libfreetype.dylib /opt/local/lib/ libexpat.dylib /opt/local/lib/libpng12.dylib /opt/local/lib/ libXrender.dylib -lX11 /opt/local/lib/libgnomevfs- 2.dylib -lssl - lcrypto /opt/local/lib/libhowl.dylib /opt/local/lib/ libgconf-2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libORBit-2.dylib -lresolv /opt/ local/lib/libgmodule-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgpgme.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libgpg-error.dylib -lldap /opt/local/lib/ libsoup-2.2.dylib /opt/local/lib/libgthread-2.0.dylib /opt/local/ lib/libxml2.dylib -lpthread -lz -lm /opt/local/lib/libgnome- keyring.dylib /opt/local/lib/libavahi-client.dylib -ldl /opt/local/ lib/libavahi- glib.dylib /opt/local/lib/libavahi-common.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libdbus-glib-1.dylib /opt/local/lib/libdbus-1.dylib /opt/ local/lib/libgobject-2.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib / opt/local/lib/libintl.dylib -lc /opt/local/lib/libiconv.dylib /usr/bin/ld: warning prebinding disabled because dependent library: /opt/local/lib/libcryptui.0.dylib is not prebound /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_free /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_free ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_free in section (__TEXT,__text) /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_malloc /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_malloc ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_malloc in section (__TEXT,__text) /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_malloc0 /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_malloc0 ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_malloc0 in section (__TEXT,__text) /usr/bin/ld: multiple definitions of symbol _g_realloc /opt/local/lib/libglib-2.0.dylib(gmem.o) definition of _g_realloc ../../libseahorse/libseahorse.a(seahorse-secure-memory.o) definition of _g_realloc in section (__TEXT,__text) collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[3]: *** [seahorse-preferences] Error 1 make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make: *** [all] Error 2
Warning: the following items did not execute (for seahorse): org.macports.activate org.macports.build org.macports.destroot org.macports.install Error: Status 1 encountered during processing. bash$
Does anyone have any idea to fix this?
Thanks, Bob
_______________________________________________ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Randall Wood rhwood@mac.com http://shyramblings.blogspot.com
"The rules are simple: The ball is round. The game lasts 90 minutes. All the rest is just philosophy."
participants (2)
-
bob spamnot
-
Randall Wood