[MacPorts] #41980: pTeX: request to integrate patches into texlive and retire the teTeX-based distribution
#41980: pTeX: request to integrate patches into texlive and retire the teTeX-based distribution -------------------------+-------------------------- Reporter: mojca@… | Owner: takanori@… Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Component: ports | Version: Keywords: | Port: pTeX texlive -------------------------+-------------------------- The [http://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk/dports/tex/pTeX pTeX port] is currently based on unmaintained/obsolete and horribly outdated tetex distribution which saw the last release in 2006 (see http://www.ctan.org /tex-archive/obsolete/systems/unix/teTeX/3.0/distrib and http://www.tug.org/tetex/):
I (Thomas Esser) have decided not to make new releases of teTeX any more (May 2006). The information below might get out of date as time goes by. I suggest anybody interested in teTeX to join the TeX Live project.
and it's also based on a lot of other outdated software (dvipdfmx underwent a lot of changes recently for example). Last time when pTeX made any package updates was probably in March 2011 (r76924). This means that: * pTeX cannot be compiled with `clang` * neither pTeX not tetex can be patched easily * there are many unnecessary conflicts (see #39705) since pTeX provides copies of the same (but outdated) utilities that are already part of TeX Live and in most cases there is no need for a copy (if the utility from `texlive-bin` wasn't in direct conflict with pTeX) * there are random other failures, like a failure to run doxygen (#26002) * often duplicate patches are needed ([http://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk/dports/tex/pTeX/files/archive /dvipdfmx-clang-%2339334.diff pTeX/dvipdfmx-clang-%2339334.diff] vs. [http://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk/dports/tex/texlive-bin/files /patch-svn31700-dvipdfmx.diff texlive-bin/patch-svn31700-dvipdfmx.diff] for example) * it makes supporting pTeX a lot more difficult These tradeoffs were needed in the beginning, but now TeX Live offers an extensive support for pTeX with maintained and up-to-date dependencies. And if anything is missing, I believe that it could easily be added either upstream or as a really tiny set of additions or patches (rather than as a full-blown distribution conflicting with everything else). Last time when I asked (July 2011), Takanori-san mentioned the following drawbacks of TeX Live for Japanese users: * updmap(-sys) in TeXLive doesn't support KanjiMap extensions. * xdvi in TeXLive doesn't support (=cannot preview) Japanese DVI which is produced by ptex. * Due to its license issues, TeXLive doesn't contain pLaTeX 2.09 macros. * It doesn't contain otf.sty (yet). but there is a high chance that these problems are solved already; and if they are not, they all seem doable. There are also a bunch of resources about pTeX integration in TeX Live and testing packages, see http://tutimura.ath.cx/ptexlive/?tlptexlive%A5%EA%A5%DD%A5%B8%A5%C8%A5%EA for example. I would really like to request trying to figure out what exactly is missing in TeX Live packages and making sure that pTeX would only provide the missing pieces without conflicting with any of the TeX Live packages. I'm willing to help solving packaging issues (I have some insight into how TeX Live works), but I'm not competent in understanding or solving Japanese-specific issues which is why the help from maintainer of pTeX is of crucial importance. I also added Norbert to CC. He is fluent in Japanes, takes care pTeX integration into TeX Live and also makes TeX Live packages for Debian, so he should be able to help if there are any problems. -- Ticket URL: <https://trac.macports.org/ticket/41980> MacPorts <http://www.macports.org/> Ports system for OS X
#41980: pTeX: request to integrate patches into texlive and retire the teTeX-based distribution ---------------------------+------------------------ Reporter: mojca@… | Owner: takanori@… Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Component: ports | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: Port: pTeX texlive | ---------------------------+------------------------ Comment (by mojca@…): This is what Norbert replied:
Short answer from Joshua Tree
since at least 2012 if not late 2011:
Last time when I asked (July 2011), Takanori-san mentioned the following drawbacks of TeX Live for Japanese users: * updmap(-sys) in TeXLive doesn't support KanjiMap extensions.
it does
* xdvi in TeXLive doesn't support (=cannot preview) Japanese DVI which is produced by ptex.
the pxdvi patches are not applicable anymore due to upstream switch to freetype. so still valid. but from what I hear this is not serious
* Due to its license issues, TeXLive doesn't contain pLaTeX 2.09 macros.
??? not sure
* It doesn't contain otf.sty (yet).
it does, since long, and much more.
The current TeX Live is by far sufficient for practically all purposes as far as I know, and the binaries/source fixes loads of old bugs.
http://tutimura.ath.cx/ptexlive/?tlptexlive%A5%EA%A5%DD%A5%B8%A5%C8%A5%EA
for example.
maintained by me, and contains nothing but hiraprop package and binary fixes
Norbert (please forward my email to the tickets, I'm not allowed to post there)
-- Ticket URL: <https://trac.macports.org/ticket/41980#comment:1> MacPorts <http://www.macports.org/> Ports system for OS X
#41980: pTeX: request to integrate patches into texlive and retire the teTeX-based distribution ---------------------------+------------------------ Reporter: mojca@… | Owner: takanori@… Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Component: ports | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: Port: pTeX texlive | ---------------------------+------------------------ Comment (by dports@…): Let me know if there's anything I can do. I'm happy to help with this, and it would certainly simplify things to reduce the number of supported tex distributions, but I can't say I understand what the issues (if any) are with existing ptex support in texlive. -- Ticket URL: <https://trac.macports.org/ticket/41980#comment:2> MacPorts <http://www.macports.org/> Ports system for OS X
#41980: pTeX: request to integrate patches into texlive and retire the teTeX-based distribution ---------------------------+------------------------ Reporter: mojca@… | Owner: takanori@… Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Component: ports | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: Port: pTeX texlive | ---------------------------+------------------------ Changes (by ryandesign@…): * cc: ryandesign@… (removed) Old description:
The [http://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk/dports/tex/pTeX pTeX port] is currently based on unmaintained/obsolete and horribly outdated tetex distribution which saw the last release in 2006 (see http://www.ctan.org /tex-archive/obsolete/systems/unix/teTeX/3.0/distrib and http://www.tug.org/tetex/):
I (Thomas Esser) have decided not to make new releases of teTeX any more (May 2006). The information below might get out of date as time goes by. I suggest anybody interested in teTeX to join the TeX Live project.
and it's also based on a lot of other outdated software (dvipdfmx underwent a lot of changes recently for example). Last time when pTeX made any package updates was probably in March 2011 (r76924).
This means that: * pTeX cannot be compiled with `clang` * neither pTeX not tetex can be patched easily * there are many unnecessary conflicts (see #39705) since pTeX provides copies of the same (but outdated) utilities that are already part of TeX Live and in most cases there is no need for a copy (if the utility from `texlive-bin` wasn't in direct conflict with pTeX) * there are random other failures, like a failure to run doxygen (#26002) * often duplicate patches are needed ([http://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk/dports/tex/pTeX/files/archive /dvipdfmx-clang-%2339334.diff pTeX/dvipdfmx-clang-%2339334.diff] vs. [http://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk/dports/tex/texlive-bin/files /patch-svn31700-dvipdfmx.diff texlive-bin/patch-svn31700-dvipdfmx.diff] for example) * it makes supporting pTeX a lot more difficult
These tradeoffs were needed in the beginning, but now TeX Live offers an extensive support for pTeX with maintained and up-to-date dependencies. And if anything is missing, I believe that it could easily be added either upstream or as a really tiny set of additions or patches (rather than as a full-blown distribution conflicting with everything else).
Last time when I asked (July 2011), Takanori-san mentioned the following drawbacks of TeX Live for Japanese users: * updmap(-sys) in TeXLive doesn't support KanjiMap extensions. * xdvi in TeXLive doesn't support (=cannot preview) Japanese DVI which is produced by ptex. * Due to its license issues, TeXLive doesn't contain pLaTeX 2.09 macros. * It doesn't contain otf.sty (yet). but there is a high chance that these problems are solved already; and if they are not, they all seem doable.
There are also a bunch of resources about pTeX integration in TeX Live and testing packages, see http://tutimura.ath.cx/ptexlive/?tlptexlive%A5%EA%A5%DD%A5%B8%A5%C8%A5%EA for example.
I would really like to request trying to figure out what exactly is missing in TeX Live packages and making sure that pTeX would only provide the missing pieces without conflicting with any of the TeX Live packages.
I'm willing to help solving packaging issues (I have some insight into how TeX Live works), but I'm not competent in understanding or solving Japanese-specific issues which is why the help from maintainer of pTeX is of crucial importance.
I also added Norbert to CC. He is fluent in Japanes, takes care pTeX integration into TeX Live and also makes TeX Live packages for Debian, so he should be able to help if there are any problems.
New description: The [browser:trunk/dports/tex/pTeX pTeX port] is currently based on unmaintained/obsolete and horribly outdated tetex distribution which saw the last release in 2006 (see http://www.ctan.org/tex- archive/obsolete/systems/unix/teTeX/3.0/distrib and http://www.tug.org/tetex/):
I (Thomas Esser) have decided not to make new releases of teTeX any more (May 2006). The information below might get out of date as time goes by. I suggest anybody interested in teTeX to join the TeX Live project.
and it's also based on a lot of other outdated software (dvipdfmx underwent a lot of changes recently for example). Last time when pTeX made any package updates was probably in March 2011 (r76924). This means that: * pTeX cannot be compiled with `clang` * neither pTeX not tetex can be patched easily * there are many unnecessary conflicts (see #39705) since pTeX provides copies of the same (but outdated) utilities that are already part of TeX Live and in most cases there is no need for a copy (if the utility from `texlive-bin` wasn't in direct conflict with pTeX) * there are random other failures, like a failure to run doxygen (#26002) * often duplicate patches are needed ([browser:trunk/dports/tex/pTeX/files/archive/dvipdfmx-clang-%2339334.diff pTeX/dvipdfmx-clang-%2339334.diff] vs. [browser:trunk/dports/tex/texlive- bin/files/patch-svn31700-dvipdfmx.diff texlive-bin/patch- svn31700-dvipdfmx.diff] for example) * it makes supporting pTeX a lot more difficult These tradeoffs were needed in the beginning, but now TeX Live offers an extensive support for pTeX with maintained and up-to-date dependencies. And if anything is missing, I believe that it could easily be added either upstream or as a really tiny set of additions or patches (rather than as a full-blown distribution conflicting with everything else). Last time when I asked (July 2011), Takanori-san mentioned the following drawbacks of TeX Live for Japanese users: * updmap(-sys) in TeXLive doesn't support KanjiMap extensions. * xdvi in TeXLive doesn't support (=cannot preview) Japanese DVI which is produced by ptex. * Due to its license issues, TeXLive doesn't contain pLaTeX 2.09 macros. * It doesn't contain otf.sty (yet). but there is a high chance that these problems are solved already; and if they are not, they all seem doable. There are also a bunch of resources about pTeX integration in TeX Live and testing packages, see http://tutimura.ath.cx/ptexlive/?tlptexlive%A5%EA%A5%DD%A5%B8%A5%C8%A5%EA for example. I would really like to request trying to figure out what exactly is missing in TeX Live packages and making sure that pTeX would only provide the missing pieces without conflicting with any of the TeX Live packages. I'm willing to help solving packaging issues (I have some insight into how TeX Live works), but I'm not competent in understanding or solving Japanese-specific issues which is why the help from maintainer of pTeX is of crucial importance. I also added Norbert to CC. He is fluent in Japanes, takes care pTeX integration into TeX Live and also makes TeX Live packages for Debian, so he should be able to help if there are any problems. -- Comment: I'm in favor of reducing port conflicts and replacing older software with newer software. But I don't think I have anything to add to this ticket so I'll un-Cc. -- Ticket URL: <https://trac.macports.org/ticket/41980#comment:3> MacPorts <http://www.macports.org/> Ports system for OS X
#41980: pTeX: request to integrate patches into texlive and retire the teTeX-based distribution ---------------------------+------------------------ Reporter: mojca@… | Owner: takanori@… Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Component: ports | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: Port: pTeX texlive | ---------------------------+------------------------ Comment (by mojca@…): Replying to [comment:2 dports@…]:
but I can't say I understand what the issues (if any) are with existing ptex support in texlive.
When pTeX package was created, pTeX wasn't even part of TeX Live. I suggested removing the pTeX port already in 2011 when there were still some issues in TL left. There is a chance that there are still some minor "sugars" in Takanori's package to aid the Japanese users (maybe some additional map files ...), but he probably knows best what is missing in TeX Live if anything. My suggestion would be to merge those "sugars" or patches (if any of them are still needed) with TL and allow him to co-maintain TL in case that it would need some Japanese-related patches now or in future. I just wanted to encourage making the changes ... -- Ticket URL: <https://trac.macports.org/ticket/41980#comment:4> MacPorts <http://www.macports.org/> Ports system for OS X
#41980: pTeX: request to integrate patches into texlive and retire the teTeX-based distribution ---------------------------+------------------------ Reporter: mojca@… | Owner: takanori@… Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Component: ports | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: Port: pTeX texlive | ---------------------------+------------------------ Comment (by mojca@…): Just a "ping" to the maintainer: may I please ask you again to review the reasons for having a separate package for pTeX (conflicting with TeX Live), list them here, make a checklist if anything else needs to be done before TeX Live 2014 release and then remove pTeX as a separate package once TL 2014 package is out? If any files cannot be included in TL due to licencing (or other) issues, they can still be added separately, but it will be easier to maintain just those files than a separate distribution. -- Ticket URL: <https://trac.macports.org/ticket/41980#comment:5> MacPorts <http://www.macports.org/> Ports system for OS X
#41980: pTeX: request to integrate patches into texlive and retire the teTeX-based distribution ---------------------------+------------------------ Reporter: mojca@… | Owner: takanori@… Type: enhancement | Status: new Priority: Normal | Milestone: Component: ports | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: Port: pTeX texlive | ---------------------------+------------------------ Comment (by mojca@…): With TeX Live 2014 packages ante portas – can we now finally retire pTeX as a standalone package when switching to TL 2014? Maybe Dan or someone else can `"svn mv"` the package to the user tree just in case (so that it would be easy to switch back if users will miss some of functionality). If that is not acceptable, please speak now and explain what exactly is still missing in TL 2014, so that we can either fix that (or eventually decide that pTeX still covers some essential functionality which justifies its existence for a bit longer). (Removing pTeX would also close tickets #26002, #39705.) -- Ticket URL: <https://trac.macports.org/ticket/41980#comment:6> MacPorts <http://www.macports.org/> Ports system for OS X
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