Re: Emacs and Leopard problems continue
Mark, I totally agree about the desirability of an X11 port for its look and feel. I have tried all the Carbon and Aqua ports I have come across and none of them are superior (and most inferior) to the tried and true. Thanks for the patch. I will try it out and report any problems. As for your semantics suggestion, anything that works worse with a new version than it did with the old is lame in my books (-: That does not mean the people who write and maintain it are lame. They are my heroes!! Still looking forward to the new and improved X11 that will eventually catch up to the one we had under 3 months ago under Tiger; it's hard to have to go through the evolution once again.... but that is an not a MacPorts problem. (-: Cheers, Rob On Feb 4, 2008, at 8:07 AM, Mark Evenson wrote:
Rob MacLeod wrote:
I was not able to get the Leopard shipped version of emacs to fire up an X window. All it would do was drive the terminal window (or X11 xterm) from which I launched it. This is not acceptable, of course.
Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard's /usr/bin/emacs is not linked to X11: it will only work within a Terminal.app, an xterm, or anything that supports a termcap entry (you can verify this via "otool -L /usr/bin/ emacs" which shows that it is not linked against X11 libaries).
Personally, I like using the X11 version under OS X to give consistency to my emacs experience across UNIX/Max OS X development. And I never really totally understand the need to "Carbonize" or "Aquaify" the port, although Cut and Paste with the Mac OS X clipboard sometimes acts a little wonky (tip: use the Emacs menu item for Paste when CMD-v fails to insert properly). But maybe the cute Emacs icon has something to do with it, like being able to switch via the OS X switcher (and the 'emacs-app' port icon is even better!)
I was able to download the generic emacs from the gnu site, apply the patch that I got from the Macports edition of emacs, and then get it to both build and work. So why is the version on MacPorts still so lame? Is there someone maintaining this package?
I have submitted a patch [1] to the current ticket within MacPorts Trac, and am trying to get it promoted through to commit to the tree (I am a maintainer for some MacPorts, although not editors/emacs, but do not have commit rights.)
I agree that the response time on fixing this has been "lame", but calling the port "lame" is a trifle over the top, don't you think? Not a great way to win friends and influence people. . .
[1]: http://trac.macports.org/projects/macports/ticket/13942
Some instructions for using my patch for those who are following from the sidelines:
1. Pick a spot to build the port, like
osx$ mkdir ~/ports
2. Copy the existing emacs build infrastructure over:
osx$ cp -pr `port dir emacs` ~/ports
3. Replace the existing 'Portfile' with my [trivially patch][2]:
[2]: http://trac.macports.org/projects/macports/attachment/ticket/13942/emacs-Por...
osx$ cd ~/ports/emacs osx$ wget http://trac.macports.org/projects/macports/attachment/ticket/13942/emacs-Por... osx$ patch -p0 < emacs-Portfile.diff
4. Add the [upstream emacs patch to the files directory][3]
[3]: http://trac.macports.org/projects/macports/attachment/ticket/13942/patch-src...
osx$ cd ~/ports/emacs/files osx$ wget http://trac.macports.org/projects/macports/attachment/ticket/13942/patch-src...
5. Build and install:
osx$ cd ~/ports/emacs osx$ sudo port -D . install
When the official Portfile gets updated, this change will be automatically overridden by a normal 'port upgrade outdated' procedure.
-- <Mark.Evenson@gmx.at>
"[T]his is not a disentanglement from, but a progressive knotting into."
On 4 Feb 2008, at 15:17, Rob MacLeod wrote:
I totally agree about the desirability of an X11 port for its look and feel. I have tried all the Carbon and Aqua ports I have come across and none of them are superior (and most inferior) to the tried and true.
I find it hard to understand how an X11 Emacs can be significantly superior to Carbon Emacs or Aquamacs. I used X11 Emacs on GNU/Linux, then Carbon Emacs on Tiger and now Aquamacs on Leopard and to me there is no significant difference. Carbon Emacs and Aquamacs are both excellent IMHO. Using Aquamacs I get good copy/paste cooperation with other apps. I certainly don't feel the need to run X11 just for Emacs, as to me its looks and feel is about what's happening inside the window, not about what what the window or menu bar looks like. -- Arnaud
Hi, How do you select fonts for Carbon and Aqua emacs ? I find that X has nicer fixed pitch fonts than the native windows. With the Carbon and Aqua emacs, I also have a hard time finding where to place additional LISP code for tools that I find or write to extend emacs. It is all very simple and stable in the X11 versions. And, I can have X11 windows open from which I am running LaTeX or other Unix programs and the focus shifts to and from an Emacs window with the mouse location without have to click and change contexts each time I switch among windows. Small thing but one that feels irritating when it stops being possible. Thanks, Rob On Feb 4, 2008, at 1:50 PM, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
On 4 Feb 2008, at 15:17, Rob MacLeod wrote:
I totally agree about the desirability of an X11 port for its look and feel. I have tried all the Carbon and Aqua ports I have come across and none of them are superior (and most inferior) to the tried and true.
I find it hard to understand how an X11 Emacs can be significantly superior to Carbon Emacs or Aquamacs. I used X11 Emacs on GNU/ Linux, then Carbon Emacs on Tiger and now Aquamacs on Leopard and to me there is no significant difference.
Carbon Emacs and Aquamacs are both excellent IMHO. Using Aquamacs I get good copy/paste cooperation with other apps. I certainly don't feel the need to run X11 just for Emacs, as to me its looks and feel is about what's happening inside the window, not about what what the window or menu bar looks like.
-- Arnaud
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On 5 Feb 2008, at 00:30, Rob MacLeod wrote:
Hi,
Hi
How do you select fonts for Carbon and Aqua emacs ? I find that X has nicer fixed pitch fonts than the native windows.
On Aquamacs, hit Command-T
With the Carbon and Aqua emacs, I also have a hard time finding where to place additional LISP code for tools that I find or write to extend emacs. It is all very simple and stable in the X11 versions.
Look inside the Aquamacs folder, otherwise (add-to-list 'load-path "/ my/path/") in your .emacs lets you put your stuff wherever you want.
And, I can have X11 windows open from which I am running LaTeX or other Unix programs and the focus shifts to and from an Emacs window with the mouse location without have to click and change contexts each time I switch among windows. Small thing but one that feels irritating when it stops being possible.
Why run latex in and XTerm when you have Emacs? Personally I use Command-TAB to switch, it's greate when one is switching between two apps (I know it probably doesn't work in X11, but I'm sure you can configure a suitable key combination to switch between X11 windows).
Thanks, Rob
On 05.02.2008, at 01:30, Rob MacLeod wrote:
With the Carbon and Aqua emacs, I also have a hard time finding where to place additional LISP code for tools that I find or write to extend emacs. It is all very simple and stable in the X11 versions.
Just put them into ~/.emacs ... I am even using a single .emacs for all my machines, including several flavors of Un*x and Linux and my Aquamacs on OS X. This works with only a few if-expressions. I's as stale in AquaMacs as in GNU Emcs on X11 - simply use the same good-ol .emacs;) Greetings, Jochen -- Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit http://www.Jochen-Kuepper.de Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité GnuPG key: CC1B0B4D Sex, drugs and rock-n-roll
participants (3)
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Arnaud Delobelle
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Jochen Küpper
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Rob MacLeod