Hotcocoa documentation
Hello I just discovered Macruby and Hotcocoa, and I must say that I'm very excited about it. Hotcocoa is nothing short of amazing and I love the ease with which you can build a Mac application using Ruby. The only problem I have though, is that I didn't find a real documentation showing hotcocoa API. I'm using the examples, but it's very limited. I was wondering if any API documentation exists, and if not, what is the best way to know each methods available and their parameters? Thank you Michael
Hi Michael, On Oct 1, 2010, at 7:07 PM, Michael Sokol wrote:
Hello
I just discovered Macruby and Hotcocoa, and I must say that I'm very excited about it. Hotcocoa is nothing short of amazing and I love the ease with which you can build a Mac application using Ruby.
The only problem I have though, is that I didn't find a real documentation showing hotcocoa API. I'm using the examples, but it's very limited. I was wondering if any API documentation exists, and if not, what is the best way to know each methods available and their parameters?
I am afraid HotCocoa is no longer actively developed neither maintained (I recommend to avoid using it). The project lives on github now and people willing to help should do it there. http://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa Laurent
Is there some information somewhere about why Hotcocoa was dropped? If not, a few words of explanation here would be appreciated! Hotcocoa does stand out as a pretty nifty gadget, although I can imagine it's a lot of work to maintain it. /Felix 2010/10/2 Laurent Sansonetti <lsansonetti@apple.com>:
Hi Michael,
On Oct 1, 2010, at 7:07 PM, Michael Sokol wrote:
Hello
I just discovered Macruby and Hotcocoa, and I must say that I'm very excited about it. Hotcocoa is nothing short of amazing and I love the ease with which you can build a Mac application using Ruby.
The only problem I have though, is that I didn't find a real documentation showing hotcocoa API. I'm using the examples, but it's very limited. I was wondering if any API documentation exists, and if not, what is the best way to know each methods available and their parameters?
I am afraid HotCocoa is no longer actively developed neither maintained (I recommend to avoid using it). The project lives on github now and people willing to help should do it there.
http://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa
Laurent
Is there some information somewhere about why Hotcocoa was dropped? If not, a few words of explanation here would be appreciated! Hotcocoa does stand out as a pretty nifty gadget, although I can imagine it's a lot of work to maintain it.
I don't think there's information about it anywhere, but only because there's nothing much to say. HotCocoa was started by Rich Kilmer, and I can't speak for him but from what I saw he's very busy and doesn't have time to work on HotCocoa. In fact most of the work he did on HotCocoa was done when he was attending various conferences. And well after Rich stopped working on it no one decided to continue working on it, that's pretty much it. As Laurent said it's opensource, it's on Github so if anyone wants to work on it, just fork it! There was a time when HotCocoa was included in MacRuby, but there's no reason to continue including something that's not maintained anymore, and there's already enough work to do on MacRuby itself.
Ok, interesting to hear at least that it wasn't deemed unworkable or somehow a faulty approach. /F 2010/10/2 Vincent Isambart <vincent.isambart@gmail.com>:
Is there some information somewhere about why Hotcocoa was dropped? If not, a few words of explanation here would be appreciated! Hotcocoa does stand out as a pretty nifty gadget, although I can imagine it's a lot of work to maintain it.
I don't think there's information about it anywhere, but only because there's nothing much to say.
HotCocoa was started by Rich Kilmer, and I can't speak for him but from what I saw he's very busy and doesn't have time to work on HotCocoa. In fact most of the work he did on HotCocoa was done when he was attending various conferences.
And well after Rich stopped working on it no one decided to continue working on it, that's pretty much it. As Laurent said it's opensource, it's on Github so if anyone wants to work on it, just fork it!
There was a time when HotCocoa was included in MacRuby, but there's no reason to continue including something that's not maintained anymore, and there's already enough work to do on MacRuby itself.
Thank you for the answer, I feel a bit disappointed though... I loved the simplicity of Hotcocoa. Is there any other library/layer on top of Macruby that helps simplifying the creation of UI? Michael On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Felix Holmgren <felix.holmgren@gmail.com>wrote:
Ok, interesting to hear at least that it wasn't deemed unworkable or somehow a faulty approach.
/F
2010/10/2 Vincent Isambart <vincent.isambart@gmail.com>:
Is there some information somewhere about why Hotcocoa was dropped? If not, a few words of explanation here would be appreciated! Hotcocoa does stand out as a pretty nifty gadget, although I can imagine it's a lot of work to maintain it.
I don't think there's information about it anywhere, but only because
there's nothing much to say.
HotCocoa was started by Rich Kilmer, and I can't speak for him but from
what I saw he's very busy and doesn't have time to work on HotCocoa. In fact most of the work he did on HotCocoa was done when he was attending various conferences.
And well after Rich stopped working on it no one decided to continue
working on it, that's pretty much it. As Laurent said it's opensource, it's on Github so if anyone wants to work on it, just fork it!
There was a time when HotCocoa was included in MacRuby, but there's no
reason to continue including something that's not maintained anymore, and there's already enough work to do on MacRuby itself. _______________________________________________ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
Interface Builder? :-) Rob On 2 Oct 2010, at 13:48, Michael Sokol wrote:
Thank you for the answer, I feel a bit disappointed though... I loved the simplicity of Hotcocoa.
Is there any other library/layer on top of Macruby that helps simplifying the creation of UI?
Michael
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Felix Holmgren <felix.holmgren@gmail.com> wrote: Ok, interesting to hear at least that it wasn't deemed unworkable or somehow a faulty approach.
/F
2010/10/2 Vincent Isambart <vincent.isambart@gmail.com>:
Is there some information somewhere about why Hotcocoa was dropped? If not, a few words of explanation here would be appreciated! Hotcocoa does stand out as a pretty nifty gadget, although I can imagine it's a lot of work to maintain it.
I don't think there's information about it anywhere, but only because there's nothing much to say.
HotCocoa was started by Rich Kilmer, and I can't speak for him but from what I saw he's very busy and doesn't have time to work on HotCocoa. In fact most of the work he did on HotCocoa was done when he was attending various conferences.
And well after Rich stopped working on it no one decided to continue working on it, that's pretty much it. As Laurent said it's opensource, it's on Github so if anyone wants to work on it, just fork it!
There was a time when HotCocoa was included in MacRuby, but there's no reason to continue including something that's not maintained anymore, and there's already enough work to do on MacRuby itself.
_______________________________________________ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
_______________________________________________ MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
I think the issue wasn't that HotCocoa was "dropped" so much as people, including its primary author, seemed to simply lose interest in updating it. That is why the project was moved to github, in hopes that someone else would fork it and start doing interesting things with the project again. Bigger picture, I think the lack of interest also stems from the fact that it's generally a lot easier to do User Interface programming in Interface Builder, and a set of what are in effect UI element macros can only go so far in papering over the more intricate details of implementing a Cocoa app. From an evolutionary standpoint, it's hard to argue that HotCocoa isn't something of a dead-end, though that's also describing HotCocoa in its *current* form. The success of high-level development toolkits like Processing (in Java) suggests that there is a place for very high-level, concise ways of making pretty graphics on the screen or interesting sounds come out the speakers, and with a fair bit more work it's possible that HotCocoa could become that. But not without volunteers to work on it. :-) - Jordan On Oct 1, 2010, at 10:34 PM, Felix Holmgren wrote:
Is there some information somewhere about why Hotcocoa was dropped? If not, a few words of explanation here would be appreciated! Hotcocoa does stand out as a pretty nifty gadget, although I can imagine it's a lot of work to maintain it.
/Felix
2010/10/2 Laurent Sansonetti <lsansonetti@apple.com>:
Hi Michael,
On Oct 1, 2010, at 7:07 PM, Michael Sokol wrote:
Hello
I just discovered Macruby and Hotcocoa, and I must say that I'm very excited about it. Hotcocoa is nothing short of amazing and I love the ease with which you can build a Mac application using Ruby.
The only problem I have though, is that I didn't find a real documentation showing hotcocoa API. I'm using the examples, but it's very limited. I was wondering if any API documentation exists, and if not, what is the best way to know each methods available and their parameters?
I am afraid HotCocoa is no longer actively developed neither maintained (I recommend to avoid using it). The project lives on github now and people willing to help should do it there.
http://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa
Laurent
MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
In my understanding, HotCocoa is not only useful for UI programming, although it's true that those classes often need a lot of configuration and so benefit a lot from a wrapper. I think possible problems inherent in the approach might be a certain arbitrariness when defining defaults, and the continual effort to track changes in the Cocoa APIs themselves. Also, if one is likely to move to using the Cocoa classes directly sooner or later, it might not be worth the effort to first use HotCocoa, even if it makes it easy to get started on a project. /Felix 2010/10/2 Jordan K. Hubbard <jkh@apple.com>:
I think the issue wasn't that HotCocoa was "dropped" so much as people, including its primary author, seemed to simply lose interest in updating it. That is why the project was moved to github, in hopes that someone else would fork it and start doing interesting things with the project again.
Bigger picture, I think the lack of interest also stems from the fact that it's generally a lot easier to do User Interface programming in Interface Builder, and a set of what are in effect UI element macros can only go so far in papering over the more intricate details of implementing a Cocoa app. From an evolutionary standpoint, it's hard to argue that HotCocoa isn't something of a dead-end, though that's also describing HotCocoa in its *current* form. The success of high-level development toolkits like Processing (in Java) suggests that there is a place for very high-level, concise ways of making pretty graphics on the screen or interesting sounds come out the speakers, and with a fair bit more work it's possible that HotCocoa could become that. But not without volunteers to work on it. :-)
- Jordan
On Oct 1, 2010, at 10:34 PM, Felix Holmgren wrote:
Is there some information somewhere about why Hotcocoa was dropped? If not, a few words of explanation here would be appreciated! Hotcocoa does stand out as a pretty nifty gadget, although I can imagine it's a lot of work to maintain it.
/Felix
2010/10/2 Laurent Sansonetti <lsansonetti@apple.com>:
Hi Michael,
On Oct 1, 2010, at 7:07 PM, Michael Sokol wrote:
Hello
I just discovered Macruby and Hotcocoa, and I must say that I'm very excited about it. Hotcocoa is nothing short of amazing and I love the ease with which you can build a Mac application using Ruby.
The only problem I have though, is that I didn't find a real documentation showing hotcocoa API. I'm using the examples, but it's very limited. I was wondering if any API documentation exists, and if not, what is the best way to know each methods available and their parameters?
I am afraid HotCocoa is no longer actively developed neither maintained (I recommend to avoid using it). The project lives on github now and people willing to help should do it there.
http://github.com/richkilmer/hotcocoa
Laurent
MacRuby-devel mailing list MacRuby-devel@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macruby-devel
I asked Rich Kilmer about HotCocoa when we met at GoGaRuCo last month. He indicated that he's still interested in it, but is (IIRC) thinking about some different implementation strategies and waiting for MacRuby to settle down a bit. HotCocoa makes Cocoa look a lot more like the Ruby I know and love, so I really hope that he (or someone :) picks it back up, dusts it off, and moves forward with it. -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm@cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, system design
participants (7)
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Felix Holmgren
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Jordan K. Hubbard
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Laurent Sansonetti
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Michael Sokol
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Rich Morin
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Rob Gleeson
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Vincent Isambart