2.3.2-rc4 full screen oddities
I just updated to 10.5.6 and installed 2.3.2-rc4. I've encountered some oddities with full screen mode. The first two aren't show stoppers, but might be quick and easy to fix: * if you enable full screen in the X11 prefs, then switch to it using cmd-opt-a, the bottom strip is still the mac desktop, to a height the size of the top menu bar. The missing strip really is mac desktop, clicking on it switches back to aqua/focus on finder. Another cmd-opt-a switch back and forth and it comes out the right full screen size. * at some points during the cmd-opt-a switching, the character å gets deposited into whichever X11 window gets focus. First find a window in which cmd-opt-a produces this character (or some effect) when typed directly in rootless mode. My ordinary xterms don't produce anything, but composing email in alpine does, for example. Then, in full-screen mode, with the mouse over that window, try a few switches. It gets all of them, so two appear after a switch out and back. (There are some other ffm related oddities with focus, but I'm assuming that's not high enough up the list to be worth reporting for now.) * now...full screen mode does NOT play nicely with spaces! I'm currently in full screen mode with the two X11 windows I had open on Space 3, an Aqua background, no menu bar, and with the full-screen desktop background and the X11 app I had open in Space 6 "lost" in Space 6 with no way to switch to it! I can also get the full screen desktop background interleaved with the X11 windows on first switching, I think others have reported that. And I just got the X11 desktop by itself, where in virtual spaces I don't know, but maybe on top of the X11 app that was in space 6. (How did I get into this state in the first place? well, I was trying to test the cmd-opt-a thing in another app, and RetroOffice (X11 build of NeoOffice) was open on Space 6...it's an app bundle so it is natural to start it in a different space. and yes, it does react to cmd-opt-a, by doing "select all".) OK, I know that's not how full screen is designed to be used :-) I think I'll have to find your instructions for running two copies of X11, one for full-screen and one rootless... Finally, something also appears to have changed with the cut and paste in relation to RetroOffice, I can't find a combination of pasteboard options that allows the ctr-c and ctl-v that should work within the app to function properly. There's a thread around the end of October where it was first discussed, that work around no longer appears to work (unselect both "update Pasteboard when CLIPBOARD" and "Update CLIPBOARD when Pastboard"). But I installed a RetroOffice update at the same time, so I need to do considerably more checking and come back with details. I think it works OK with fvwm as the window manager, but not with quartz-wm. White rectangle ghosts appear to be banished though, well exorcised! I still get a bazillion of these: DarwinPressModifierKey bad keycode: key=5 DarwinPressModifierKey bad keycode: key=7 and are these harmless? 19/12/2008 23:58:20 org.x.startx[5047] /usr/X11/bin/font_cache: line 207: syntax error near unexpected token `(' 19/12/2008 23:58:20 org.x.startx[5047] /usr/X11/bin/font_cache: line 207: ` echo " (-n just pertains to XFont cache, not fontconfig)"' 19/12/2008 23:58:20 org.x.privileged_startx[5056] /usr/X11/bin/font_cache: line 207: syntax error near unexpected token `(' 19/12/2008 23:58:20 org.x.privileged_startx[5056] /usr/X11/bin/font_cache: line 207: ` echo " (-n just pertains to XFont cache, not fontconfig)"' many many thanks for all the hard work!! -- Viv ________________________________________________ Dr Viv Kendon http://quantum.leeds.ac.uk/~viv tel: +44 113 343 4864 Physics and Astronomy Quantum Information Group University of Leeds
On Dec 20, 2008, at 13:41, Viv Kendon wrote:
I just updated to 10.5.6 and installed 2.3.2-rc4. I've encountered some oddities with full screen mode. The first two aren't show stoppers, but might be quick and easy to fix:
* if you enable full screen in the X11 prefs, then switch to it using cmd-opt-a, the bottom strip is still the mac desktop, to a height the size of the top menu bar. The missing strip really is mac desktop, clicking on it switches back to aqua/focus on finder. Another cmd-opt-a switch back and forth and it comes out the right full screen size.
* at some points during the cmd-opt-a switching, the character å gets deposited into whichever X11 window gets focus. First find a window in which cmd-opt-a produces this character (or some effect) when typed directly in rootless mode. My ordinary xterms don't produce anything, but composing email in alpine does, for example. Then, in full-screen mode, with the mouse over that window, try a few switches. It gets all of them, so two appear after a switch out and back.
(There are some other ffm related oddities with focus, but I'm assuming that's not high enough up the list to be worth reporting for now.)
Yeah, I saw the first issue... it's not a showstopper... The second one I want to fix if it's not too difficult. There is a bug report open for it already, I think...
* now...full screen mode does NOT play nicely with spaces! I'm currently in full screen mode with the two X11 windows I had open on Space 3, an Aqua background, no menu bar, and with the full-screen desktop background and the X11 app I had open in Space 6 "lost" in Space 6 with no way to switch to it!
Well, you'd have to switch to space 6...
I can also get the full screen desktop background interleaved with the X11 windows on first switching, I think others have reported that.
Nope, this is the first I've heard about it... open a bug report.
And I just got the X11 desktop by itself, where in virtual spaces I don't know, but maybe on top of the X11 app that was in space 6.
You're probably in a space with no X11 client. The windows are bound to a particular Space.
(How did I get into this state in the first place? well, I was trying to test the cmd-opt-a thing in another app, and RetroOffice (X11 build of NeoOffice) was open on Space 6...it's an app bundle so it is natural to start it in a different space. and yes, it does react to cmd-opt-a, by doing "select all".)
Well if it's an X11 application with an app bundle... then it's either got its own X11 server or its using ours... which is the case?
OK, I know that's not how full screen is designed to be used :-) I think I'll have to find your instructions for running two copies of X11, one for full-screen and one rootless...
Finally, something also appears to have changed with the cut and paste in relation to RetroOffice, I can't find a combination of pasteboard options that allows the ctr-c and ctl-v that should work within the app to function properly.
How so?
There's a thread around the end of October where it was first discussed, that work around no longer appears to work (unselect both "update Pasteboard when CLIPBOARD" and "Update CLIPBOARD when Pastboard").
If you do that, then we don't ever touch CLIPBOARD, so if your application isn't working, it's either not using CLIPBOARD or it's just broken outside of us.
But I installed a RetroOffice update at the same time, so I need to do considerably more checking and come back with details. I think it works OK with fvwm as the window manager, but not with quartz-wm.
Well that doesn't make sense at all since quartz-wm doesn't do anything with CLIPBOARD on our X11.app...
White rectangle ghosts appear to be banished though, well exorcised! I still get a bazillion of these:
woot!
DarwinPressModifierKey bad keycode: key=5 DarwinPressModifierKey bad keycode: key=7
and are these harmless?
yes, they're harmless...
19/12/2008 23:58:20 org.x.startx[5047] /usr/X11/bin/font_cache: line 207: syntax error near unexpected token `(' 19/12/2008 23:58:20 org.x.startx[5047] /usr/X11/bin/font_cache: line 207: ` echo " (-n just pertains to XFont cache, not fontconfig)"' 19/12/2008 23:58:20 org.x.privileged_startx[5056] /usr/X11/bin/ font_cache: line 207: syntax error near unexpected token `(' 19/12/2008 23:58:20 org.x.privileged_startx[5056] /usr/X11/bin/ font_cache: line 207: ` echo " (-n just pertains to XFont cache, not fontconfig)"'
Yeah, it's a bug that I've already fixed... my bad for missing it.
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008, Jeremy Huddleston wrote:
On Dec 20, 2008, at 13:41, Viv Kendon wrote:
* now...full screen mode does NOT play nicely with spaces! I'm currently in full screen mode with the two X11 windows I had open on Space 3, an Aqua background, no menu bar, and with the full-screen desktop background and the X11 app I had open in Space 6 "lost" in Space 6 with no way to switch to it!
Well, you'd have to switch to space 6...
Exactly...only once I'm in full screen I can't find a way to do that: is there something I'm missing? If I go to screen 6 first then cmd-opt-a into full screen, well, things just get worse, with the effects mentioned below. In the Spaces preferences I have unchecked the option to have Spaces switch to a screen with active windows when selecting an app, but this sort of switching still happens, for instance when calling up the X11 preferences window when in a Space with X11 windows but not the one X11 first opened a window in. So I moved the preferences window over to Space 6 from Space 3, and that seemed to confuse both Spaces and X11 when I selected full screen mode.
I can also get the full screen desktop background interleaved with the X11 windows on first switching, I think others have reported that.
Nope, this is the first I've heard about it... open a bug report.
I'll do some more testing to find a way to reproduce it reliably. I'm about to go offline for a week, so I can't report until I'm back.
And I just got the X11 desktop by itself, where in virtual spaces I don't know, but maybe on top of the X11 app that was in space 6.
You're probably in a space with no X11 client. The windows are bound to a particular Space.
(How did I get into this state in the first place? well, I was trying to test the cmd-opt-a thing in another app, and RetroOffice (X11 build of NeoOffice) was open on Space 6...it's an app bundle so it is natural to start it in a different space. and yes, it does react to cmd-opt-a, by doing "select all".)
Well if it's an X11 application with an app bundle... then it's either got its own X11 server or its using ours... which is the case?
It uses xquartz, it doesn't bundle its own: http://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/RetroOffice
OK, I know that's not how full screen is designed to be used :-) I think I'll have to find your instructions for running two copies of X11, one for full-screen and one rootless...
Finally, something also appears to have changed with the cut and paste in relation to RetroOffice, I can't find a combination of pasteboard options that allows the ctr-c and ctl-v that should work within the app to function properly.
How so?
ctl-c on a selection followed by ctl-v pastes something previously copied from elsewhere in X11 land, or whatever cmd-c last copied. I have the X11 preferences window open and the only pasteboard option I have checked is "enable syncing. So RetroOffice is not copying (or cutting) into the buffer it then pastes from. But I'll have to get back to you after I've had a chance to revert to the previous RetroOffice version and test in a more vanilla account, log out, reboot, etc., etc.. -- Viv
There's a thread around the end of October where it was first discussed, that work around no longer appears to work (unselect both "update Pasteboard when CLIPBOARD" and "Update CLIPBOARD when Pastboard").
If you do that, then we don't ever touch CLIPBOARD, so if your application isn't working, it's either not using CLIPBOARD or it's just broken outside of us.
But I installed a RetroOffice update at the same time, so I need to do considerably more checking and come back with details. I think it works OK with fvwm as the window manager, but not with quartz-wm.
Well that doesn't make sense at all since quartz-wm doesn't do anything with CLIPBOARD on our X11.app...
________________________________________________ Dr Viv Kendon http://quantum.leeds.ac.uk/~viv tel: +44 113 343 4864 Physics and Astronomy Quantum Information Group University of Leeds
Well, you'd have to switch to space 6...
Exactly...only once I'm in full screen I can't find a way to do that: is there something I'm missing?
I think the only way is the menubar control. In System Preferences-
Spaces, click the option to add a control to the menu bar...
If I go to screen 6 first then cmd-opt-a into full screen, well, things just get worse, with the effects mentioned below. In the Spaces preferences I have unchecked the option to have Spaces switch to a screen with active windows when selecting an app, but this sort of switching still happens,
Are you using 2.3.1 or 2.3.2_rc4? 2.3.2_rc4 should support that spaces checkbox.
(How did I get into this state in the first place? well, I was trying to test the cmd-opt-a thing in another app, and RetroOffice (X11 build of NeoOffice) was open on Space 6...it's an app bundle so it is natural to start it in a different space. and yes, it does react to cmd-opt-a, by doing "select all".)
Well if it's an X11 application with an app bundle... then it's either got its own X11 server or its using ours... which is the case?
It uses xquartz, it doesn't bundle its own: http://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/RetroOffice
Ans meta-alt-a is a key-sequence in RetroOffice for select-all?
Finally, something also appears to have changed with the cut and paste in relation to RetroOffice, I can't find a combination of pasteboard options that allows the ctr-c and ctl-v that should work within the app to function properly.
How so?
ctl-c on a selection followed by ctl-v pastes something previously copied from elsewhere in X11 land, or whatever cmd-c last copied. I have the X11 preferences window open and the only pasteboard option I have checked is "enable syncing. So RetroOffice is not copying (or cutting) into the buffer it then pastes from. But I'll have to get back to you after I've had a chance to revert to the previous RetroOffice version and test in a more vanilla account, log out, reboot, etc., etc..
Well, file this bug with Retrooffice then. If all you have selected is the 'enable syncing' option and no sub option, that's the same as it being completely disabled =/
I'm back...haven't sorted out the RetroOffice cut+paste problems but I have installed X11.bin-20081224 and Xquartx-1.4.2-apple29 on top of my rc4 installation and tried the full screen stuff again. With these newer versions of X11.bin and Xquartz the dropped opt-a doesn't appear, and the strip of Aqua desktop has also gone. Good work! The Spaces full-screen interactions are still really strange...comments below. None of the rest of this post is important for 2.3.2 release. On Sun, 21 Dec 2008, Jeremy Huddleston wrote:
Well, you'd have to switch to space 6...
Exactly...only once I'm in full screen I can't find a way to do that: is there something I'm missing?
I think the only way is the menubar control. In System Preferences->Spaces, click the option to add a control to the menu bar...
I already have that. In X11 preferences I checked the auto-show menu-bar in full screen mode box (I didn't do that in my previous testing). And now I can get to different screens while in full screen mode, with a brief flash back into Aqua on the way.
If I go to screen 6 first then cmd-opt-a into full screen, well, things just get worse, with the effects mentioned below. In the Spaces preferences I have unchecked the option to have Spaces switch to a screen with active windows when selecting an app, but this sort of switching still happens,
Are you using 2.3.1 or 2.3.2_rc4? 2.3.2_rc4 should support that spaces checkbox.
I meant in the Expose+Spaces preferences, at the bottom, the option to have Spaces switch to a Space with open windows for an application if you select that application. I have that unchecked, I don't want Spaces to do that. But it still does quite of lot of that sort of switching between Spaces when I didn't ask it to. Especially around X11 windows. For example... Start X11, open an xterm or two, and switch to full-screen mode in the X11 preferences. cmd-opt-a out of X11, switch to another space, and start RetroOffice by clicking on the dock icon for it. I get switched to X11 full-screen mode (as I should) but flipped to the Space in which I started X11, where RetroOffice then opens. cmd-opt-a out of X11, go back to rootless mode via the X11 preferences, and drag the RetroOffice window to Space 6, and an xterm to Space 5, leaving an xterm in Space 2 where X11 was started. drag the X11 preferences to Space 5. select full screen mode again. the X11 windows vanish (as they should) and I get switched to Space 2 (which I shouldn't). cmd-opt-a into X11 full screen and open another xterm so I have two in the same Space. Now it is pretty easy to find sequences of cmd-opt-a and menu bar Space switching that end up with only one of the X11 windows visible where there should be two. Interleaving a Terminal (or other Aqua) window between the two while in rootless mode is a pretty good bet for triggering it. I think the other one is "behind" the root window, because if I go back to rootless mode it is still where I left it. I even managed at one point to get both the Finder menu bar and the X11 menu bar superimposed, but I don't have a reliable way to reproduce that (yet). And I just lost focus from X11 entirely while typing, so characters went into the Terminal window "behind" and switched me to Aqua without a cmd-opt-a. I think this is probably the long-standing focus stealing bug that may be iCal related (I have iCal running). And I have managed to get the root window hiding all X11 windows in a Space while moving around too (I can check which space I'm in with the menu bar now...) Another reliable way to get out of full-screen using the menu bar only is to click on the menu bar to drop focus from the X11 window, run the mouse along to the Spaces control so the drop-down appears, then, without selecting anything, run the mouse back to the left so the drop-down goes away. That lands you back in Aqua-land but with X11 still having focus. I think I'm going to stop testing with quartz-wm and set up full screen with a different window manager. I don't think how X11 full screen works with Spaces is a high priority. But I do care a lot about the focus stealing and would really like that fixed so it doesn't happen except for drastic events like system shutdown. It is much more intrusive when working in full-screen, especially when it flips you back to Aqua without warning.
(How did I get into this state in the first place? well, I was trying to test the cmd-opt-a thing in another app, and RetroOffice (X11 build of NeoOffice) was open on Space 6...it's an app bundle so it is natural to start it in a different space. and yes, it does react to cmd-opt-a, by doing "select all".)
Well if it's an X11 application with an app bundle... then it's either got its own X11 server or its using ours... which is the case?
It uses xquartz, it doesn't bundle its own: http://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/RetroOffice
Ans meta-alt-a is a key-sequence in RetroOffice for select-all?
Both ctl-a and cmd-a appear to do select all. I think RetroOffice has some Aqua key bindings as well as traditional X11 key bindings.
Finally, something also appears to have changed with the cut and paste in relation to RetroOffice, I can't find a combination of pasteboard options that allows the ctr-c and ctl-v that should work within the app to function properly.
How so?
ctl-c on a selection followed by ctl-v pastes something previously copied from elsewhere in X11 land, or whatever cmd-c last copied. I have the X11 preferences window open and the only pasteboard option I have checked is "enable syncing. So RetroOffice is not copying (or cutting) into the buffer it then pastes from. But I'll have to get back to you after I've had a chance to revert to the previous RetroOffice version and test in a more vanilla account, log out, reboot, etc., etc..
Well, file this bug with Retrooffice then. If all you have selected is the 'enable syncing' option and no sub option, that's the same as it being completely disabled =/
RetroOffice doesn't do bugs, it only exists for debugging NeoOffice. I'm testing with it because I can't test at work using the Ooo on linux I first had cut+paste problems with, until we are back in the New Year on 5th Jan. I'll come back on this one once I've reverted to the previous RetroOffice version...it may be it has picked up some NeoOffice code that interacts with the Aqua Pasteboard independently of X11, because cmd-v works to paste in it...hmmm. cheers, -- Viv ________________________________________________ Dr Viv Kendon http://quantum.leeds.ac.uk/~viv tel: +44 113 343 4864 Physics and Astronomy Quantum Information Group University of Leeds
On Dec 28, 2008, at 16:27, Viv Kendon wrote:
Well, you'd have to switch to space 6... Exactly...only once I'm in full screen I can't find a way to do that: is there something I'm missing?
I think the only way is the menubar control. In System Preferences-
Spaces, click the option to add a control to the menu bar...
I already have that. In X11 preferences I checked the auto-show menu-bar in full screen mode box (I didn't do that in my previous testing). And now I can get to different screens while in full screen mode, with a brief flash back into Aqua on the way.
Have you tried: defaults write org.x.X11 fullscreen_hotkeys -boolean YES
If I go to screen 6 first then cmd-opt-a into full screen, well, things just get worse, with the effects mentioned below. In the Spaces preferences I have unchecked the option to have Spaces switch to a screen with active windows when selecting an app, but this sort of switching still happens,
Are you using 2.3.1 or 2.3.2_rc4? 2.3.2_rc4 should support that spaces checkbox.
I meant in the Expose+Spaces preferences, at the bottom, the option to have Spaces switch to a Space with open windows for an application if you select that application. I have that unchecked, I don't want Spaces to do that. But it still does quite of lot of that sort of switching between Spaces when I didn't ask it to. Especially around X11 windows. For example...
Yeah, that's actually hard to do right with Fullscreen X11 since with fullscreen, we need to "unhide" the windows... and "unhiding" the windows actually causes us to switch to that Desktop since it's different than just activating the Application. I'm not really sure that we can support that in a trivial manner (and I'm not sure a complicated solution is really worth the cost of implementation) <snip/>
I even managed at one point to get both the Finder menu bar and the X11 menu bar superimposed, but I don't have a reliable way to reproduce that (yet). And I just lost focus from X11 entirely while typing
This has been reported before... and actually, I've seen it happen with applications other than X11, (I've lost focus from Mail.app and Terminal.app as well while typing) <snip/>
Another reliable way to get out of full-screen using the menu bar only is to click on the menu bar to drop focus from the X11 window, run the mouse along to the Spaces control so the drop-down appears, then, without selecting anything, run the mouse back to the left so the drop-down goes away. That lands you back in Aqua-land but with X11 still having focus.
Can you get back to "X11-land" with a cmd-opt-a there?
I think I'm going to stop testing with quartz-wm and set up full screen with a different window manager. I don't think how X11 full screen works with Spaces is a high priority. But I do care a lot about the focus stealing and would really like that fixed so it doesn't happen except for drastic events like system shutdown. It is much more intrusive when working in full-screen, especially when it flips you back to Aqua without warning.
Yeah, I agree with you on that, and I'll buy a case of beer for anyone who figures out that bug or comes up with the reproducible test case that leads to that bug being squashed once and for all.
(How did I get into this state in the first place? well, I was trying to test the cmd-opt-a thing in another app, and RetroOffice (X11 build of NeoOffice) was open on Space 6...it's an app bundle so it is natural to start it in a different space. and yes, it does react to cmd-opt-a, by doing "select all".) Well if it's an X11 application with an app bundle... then it's either got its own X11 server or its using ours... which is the case? It uses xquartz, it doesn't bundle its own: http://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/RetroOffice
Ans meta-alt-a is a key-sequence in RetroOffice for select-all?
Both ctl-a and cmd-a appear to do select all. I think RetroOffice has some Aqua key bindings as well as traditional X11 key bindings.
Right, but in X11-land, OSX's cmd is mapped to X11's meta... but as you said, it's not getting this key sequence any more, so this issue is really moot now.
Finally, something also appears to have changed with the cut and paste in relation to RetroOffice, I can't find a combination of pasteboard options that allows the ctr-c and ctl-v that should work within the app to function properly. How so? ctl-c on a selection followed by ctl-v pastes something previously copied from elsewhere in X11 land, or whatever cmd-c last copied. I have the X11 preferences window open and the only pasteboard option I have checked is "enable syncing. So RetroOffice is not copying (or cutting) into the buffer it then pastes from. But I'll have to get back to you after I've had a chance to revert to the previous RetroOffice version and test in a more vanilla account, log out, reboot, etc., etc..
Well, file this bug with Retrooffice then. If all you have selected is the 'enable syncing' option and no sub option, that's the same as it being completely disabled =/
RetroOffice doesn't do bugs, it only exists for debugging NeoOffice. I'm testing with it because I can't test at work using the Ooo on linux I first had cut+paste problems with, until we are back in the New Year on 5th Jan. I'll come back on this one once I've reverted to the previous RetroOffice version...it may be it has picked up some NeoOffice code that interacts with the Aqua Pasteboard independently of X11, because cmd-v works to paste in it...hmmm.
Oh, yeah... interesting point. It's probably using NSPasteboard directly since it's NeoOffice under the hood.
participants (2)
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Jeremy Huddleston
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Viv Kendon