Check for X11 Updates option sometimes greyed out
Hi I've noticed that sometimes the "Check for X11 Updates..." menu option is greyed out, and the only way to make is accessible is to quit X and restart. Has anyone else seen this? Cheers Adam
yes, but this just means it's checking for updates in the background. check network activity using little snitch or alike and you'll see X11 downloading. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 18:45, Adam Mercer <ramercer@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
I've noticed that sometimes the "Check for X11 Updates..." menu option is greyed out, and the only way to make is accessible is to quit X and restart. Has anyone else seen this?
Cheers
Adam _______________________________________________ Xquartz-dev mailing list Xquartz-dev@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/xquartz-dev
+ Joachim Beckers <joachim@jbeckers.be>:
yes, but this just means it's checking for updates in the background. check network activity using little snitch or alike and you'll see X11 downloading.
What? It downloads without asking first? That's atrocious if true. What if you're on a low bandwidth, high cost network? I thought it would check, then ask if you want to download the upgrade. - Harald
Better get used to that (and stop using those high-cost networks! Read a nice book instead if you're somewhere that remote! :-) This is by far the preferred user experience for 99% of the population since background downloads are unobtrusive and can then be easily applied on next launch, rather than the usual modal dialog which locks you out of the application while it's being updated (people HATE those). Sure, you could put up another dialog asking if you want to download it, but then you'd have TWO dialogs: Do you want to download it? Do you want to apply the update? Just about everyone would hate *that* too... The world is heading in the direction of ubiquitous networking. That is why the iPhone has a "disable data roaming" switch - we realize that there are parts of the world where data rates are simply too high, in which case using the network *at all* becomes an opt-in exercise. If I didn't have a book to read, I'd leave my network off entirely except for those brief periods when I wanted to use it since it's silly to expect all the apps to know the cost of a downloaded byte and hold off from using it even though it's up and available. - Jordan On Aug 18, 2009, at 2:27 PM, Harald Hanche-Olsen wrote:
What? It downloads without asking first? That's atrocious if true. What if you're on a low bandwidth, high cost network? I thought it would check, then ask if you want to download the upgrade.
On Aug 18, 2009, at 14:47, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
Better get used to that (and stop using those high-cost networks! Read a nice book instead if you're somewhere that remote! :-)
This is by far the preferred user experience for 99% of the population since background downloads are unobtrusive and can then be easily applied on next launch, rather than the usual modal dialog which locks you out of the application while it's being updated (people HATE those). Sure, you could put up another dialog asking if you want to download it, but then you'd have TWO dialogs: Do you want to download it? Do you want to apply the update? Just about everyone would hate *that* too...
As a side note, there is a checkbox in the update dialog that says "Do not automatically download updates" or similar... so there is an option for that... and I'm sure it corresponds to some defaults option that can be set if you're concerned. That being said, this update functionality is really just Sparkle dumped into X11.app with a bit of extra voodoo since we're not a pure Cocoa application. If you're really concerned with this behavior model, I suggest you raise the point with the Sparkle developers (they're on launchpad.net), and we'll inherit their changes when they release it. Maybe there can be some global NSDefaults option like "myInternetIsUberExpensive" ... but I'm staying above that abstraction layer.
+ Jeremy Huddleston <jeremyhu@apple.com>:
As a side note, there is a checkbox in the update dialog that says "Do not automatically download updates" or similar... so there is an option for that...
Okay, I'll have to wait for the next update, since I won't see that dialog otherwise. Fortunately (or unfortunately), next summer is far away.
Maybe there can be some global NSDefaults option like "myInternetIsUberExpensive" ... but I'm staying above that abstraction layer.
Hmm, that would be nice, yes. In fact I would have liked to have such an option that would be understood by all auto-updating apps, not just the sparkle ones. I have auto-updates turned off in most apps, but if I could have a global on/off switch, I could turn it back on. Maybe I'll suggest it to the sparkle folks. - Harald
Sorry to dig up a semi-old thread... Will X11 automatically update and install (if relevant feature is enabled) to the latest available X11 release, even if that makes it very difficult or impossible to downgrade to the previous version? I ask this question as the environment in which I work relies upon testing each version before "blessing" it for production use. If we have a problem, we may need to revert to a previous version. Thank you in advance. - Ben On Aug 18, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Harald Hanche-Olsen wrote:
+ Jeremy Huddleston <jeremyhu@apple.com>:
As a side note, there is a checkbox in the update dialog that says "Do not automatically download updates" or similar... so there is an option for that...
Okay, I'll have to wait for the next update, since I won't see that dialog otherwise. Fortunately (or unfortunately), next summer is far away.
Maybe there can be some global NSDefaults option like "myInternetIsUberExpensive" ... but I'm staying above that abstraction layer.
Hmm, that would be nice, yes. In fact I would have liked to have such an option that would be understood by all auto-updating apps, not just the sparkle ones. I have auto-updates turned off in most apps, but if I could have a global on/off switch, I could turn it back on. Maybe I'll suggest it to the sparkle folks.
- Harald _______________________________________________ Xquartz-dev mailing list Xquartz-dev@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/xquartz-dev
-- Ben Haga ECS Core Admin bhaga@apple.com
+ Ben Haga <bhaga@apple.com>:
Sorry to dig up a semi-old thread... Will X11 automatically update and install (if relevant feature is enabled) to the latest available X11 release, even if that makes it very difficult or impossible to downgrade to the previous version?
I don't see why downgrading should be difficult or impossible. Just go to http://static.macosforge.org/xquartz/downloads/ and pick the earlier version you want and install it on top of the newer version. The only problem I can imagine is if the newer version contains a file which is not in the earlier version. You would have to remove such files by hand, if they are causing trouble. And I think the only locations where the existence of a file could cause trouble are these: ; find /usr/X11/ -type d -name '*.d' /usr/X11//lib/X11/fontconfig/conf.d /usr/X11//lib/X11/xinit/privileged_startx.d /usr/X11//lib/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d If you're paranoid, just nuke those before installing.
I ask this question as the environment in which I work relies upon testing each version before "blessing" it for production use. If we have a problem, we may need to revert to a previous version.
In such an environment, I think I would turn off the automatic upgrade feature. - Harald
Harald, On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:48 AM, Harald Hanche-Olsen wrote:
+ Ben Haga <bhaga@apple.com>:
Sorry to dig up a semi-old thread... Will X11 automatically update and install (if relevant feature is enabled) to the latest available X11 release, even if that makes it very difficult or impossible to downgrade to the previous version?
I don't see why downgrading should be difficult or impossible. Just go to http://static.macosforge.org/xquartz/downloads/ and pick the earlier version you want and install it on top of the newer version. With some prior releases, it was not as easy as simply installing an older package. I am not going to assume it works that way unless I find that after it is released. The group that will be performing these updates are not admins and do not actively track X11 issues with their applications.
The only problem I can imagine is if the newer version contains a file which is not in the earlier version. You would have to remove such files by hand, if they are causing trouble. And I think the only locations where the existence of a file could cause trouble are these:
; find /usr/X11/ -type d -name '*.d' /usr/X11//lib/X11/fontconfig/conf.d /usr/X11//lib/X11/xinit/privileged_startx.d /usr/X11//lib/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d
If you're paranoid, just nuke those before installing.
This is the problem I was looking to avoid. I could write a script to distribute to those in affected groups, but I would prefer not to subvert a better way should it exist.
I ask this question as the environment in which I work relies upon testing each version before "blessing" it for production use. If we have a problem, we may need to revert to a previous version.
In such an environment, I think I would turn off the automatic upgrade feature.
Aye, yet it will prompt people to do this once they upgrade. I expect a small group of people may enable this without knowing the ramifications of doing so. Thanks for the response.
- Harald _______________________________________________ Xquartz-dev mailing list Xquartz-dev@lists.macosforge.org http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/xquartz-dev
-- Ben Haga ECS Core Admin bhaga@apple.com
+ "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@apple.com>:
Better get used to that (and stop using those high-cost networks! Read a nice book instead if you're somewhere that remote! :-)
Not an option, really. I am somewhere that remote for two or three weeks every summer, and staying offline for that long, while tempting, is not something I can do.
Sure, you could put up another dialog asking if you want to download it, but then you'd have TWO dialogs: Do you want to download it? Do you want to apply the update? Just about everyone would hate *that* too...
I would have liked to have the option, at least. - Harald
participants (6)
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Adam Mercer
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Ben Haga
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Harald Hanche-Olsen
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Jeremy Huddleston
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Joachim Beckers
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Jordan K. Hubbard