Re: [Xquartz-dev] 2.3.2_beta1
Jeremy Huddleston wrote:
Dave Ray wrote:
Copy/paste works as expected with xpbproxy, but only in the OS-X -> X11 direction. I never thought to check in the other direction
until I
read the recent post. Is this the intended behavior?
Yes, we intend the synchronization to work both ways assuming you have the options checked in preferences. The only option not currently implemented is 'copy on select'
Okay, well than I have some interesting things to report. In X11 preferences I have all the paste checkbox items checked. I can copy text from Textedit -> xterm, Textedit -> Eterm I can copy text from xterm -> Textedit, but NOT Eterm -> Textedit. Perhaps I need to recompile that with a flag of some sort. I can copy graphics from Preview -> Gimp, Photoshop -> Gimp and Graphic Converter -> Gimp. I can NOT copt graphics from Gimp -> any graphics app in OS-X. To copy from an X11 app to OS-X, I select the text/graphic, then use command-C in the OS-X menu, then I switch to the OS-X app and type command-V. Let me know if I'm doing something wrong. Another observation: If the selected text/graphic is selected, and then deselected, the normal X11 behavior is to keep the last selected item in the X11 clipboard buffer, even without explicitly using keys to copy. This is because X11 doesn't have global copy/paste keys like OS-X. I found that if I deselect the selected item in X11, and then use command-C, the item is in the X11 buffer but not copied to the OS-X clipboard. This is probably by design but I wanted to be sure. I thought it would be useful for you to get this kind of feedback from someone not using quartz-wm.
John Koren wrote
This results in a error message " A clipboard manager is already running. pbproxy will not sync clipboard to pasteboard." being written in the system log.
If you are getting this message, pbproxy is still being launched somehow, even though it is not in your .xinitrc.
Or any other application that claims the CLIPBOARD_MANAGER atom (xclipboard, klipper, etc).
So, does this mean the message "pbproxy will not sync clipboard.." is a generic message that will be displayed in the startup logs if there is any conflict, even if pbproxy is not installed? Dave
Quoted Dave Ray <apple@jonive.com>:
Jeremy Huddleston wrote:
Dave Ray wrote:
Copy/paste works as expected with xpbproxy, but only in the OS-X -> X11 direction. I never thought to check in the other direction
until I
read the recent post. Is this the intended behavior?
Yes, we intend the synchronization to work both ways assuming you have the options checked in preferences. The only option not currently implemented is 'copy on select'
Okay, well than I have some interesting things to report. In X11 preferences I have all the paste checkbox items checked.
I can copy text from Textedit -> xterm, Textedit -> Eterm
I can copy text from xterm -> Textedit, but NOT Eterm -> Textedit. Perhaps I need to recompile that with a flag of some sort.
I've never used Eterm, but if you select the text, and then do an Edit->Copy in the Mac menubar it may work.
I can copy graphics from Preview -> Gimp, Photoshop -> Gimp and Graphic Converter -> Gimp.
I can NOT copt graphics from Gimp -> any graphics app in OS-X.
To copy from an X11 app to OS-X, I select the text/graphic, then use command-C in the OS-X menu, then I switch to the OS-X app and type command-V. Let me know if I'm doing something wrong.
OK, the graphical/image copying with the Gimp is different, due to fundamental architectural differences. To copy an image with the Gimp go to the Gimp's Edit->Copy menu, and then you should be able to paste into Preview, and other Mac apps. There is no consistent way for the Mac to trigger a copy in all X11 apps, due to the design of the X11 mechanisms.
Another observation: If the selected text/graphic is selected, and then deselected, the normal X11 behavior is to keep the last selected item in the X11 clipboard buffer, even without explicitly using keys to copy. This is because X11 doesn't have global copy/paste keys like OS-X. I found that if I deselect the selected item in X11, and then use command-C, the item is in the X11 buffer but not copied to the OS-X clipboard. This is probably by design but I wanted to be sure.
Hmm. I'm not sure I follow that. Can you tell me step by step how to reproduce that with applications?
I thought it would be useful for you to get this kind of feedback from someone not using quartz-wm.
John Koren wrote
This results in a error message " A clipboard manager is already running. pbproxy will not sync clipboard to pasteboard." being written in the system log.
If you are getting this message, pbproxy is still being launched somehow, even though it is not in your .xinitrc.
Or any other application that claims the CLIPBOARD_MANAGER atom (xclipboard, klipper, etc).
So, does this mean the message "pbproxy will not sync clipboard.." is a generic message that will be displayed in the startup logs if there is any conflict, even if pbproxy is not installed?
It basically means that the way that pbproxy works, it can clash with xclipboard and the like, so it doesn't try to fight with them if they are already running. George -- http://www.xmission.com/~georgeps/ http://whim.linuxsys.net http://code.google.com/p/megapkg/ http://people.freedesktop.org/~gstaplin/
On Oct 11, 2008, at 2:46 PM, George Peter Staplin wrote:
Quoted Dave Ray <apple@jonive.com>:
I can copy text from Textedit -> xterm, Textedit -> Eterm I can copy text from xterm -> Textedit, but NOT Eterm -> Textedit. Perhaps I need to recompile that with a flag of some sort.
I've never used Eterm, but if you select the text, and then do an Edit->Copy in the Mac menubar it may work.
That's how I did it. I selected text in the terminal, hit command-C, switched to Textedit, hit command-P.
I can copy graphics from Preview -> Gimp, Photoshop -> Gimp and Graphic Converter -> Gimp.
I can NOT copt graphics from Gimp -> any graphics app in OS-X.
To copy from an X11 app to OS-X, I select the text/graphic, then use command-C in the OS-X menu, then I switch to the OS-X app and type command-V. Let me know if I'm doing something wrong.
OK, the graphical/image copying with the Gimp is different, due to fundamental architectural differences. To copy an image with the Gimp go to the Gimp's Edit->Copy menu, and then you should be able to paste into Preview, and other Mac apps. There is no consistent way for the Mac to trigger a copy in all X11 apps, due to the design of the X11 mechanisms.
I should have explained what I did a little better.. Yes this is actually what I did. I opened a JPEG image in Gimp, selected all and copied using the menus from within Gimp. After this, I hit command-C. Then I switch to the graphics app in OS-X, and typed command-P.
Another observation: If the selected text/graphic is selected, and then deselected, the normal X11 behavior is to keep the last selected item in the X11 clipboard buffer, even without explicitly using keys to copy. This is because X11 doesn't have global copy/paste keys like OS-X. I found that if I deselect the selected item in X11, and then use command-C, the item is in the X11 buffer but not copied to the OS-X clipboard. This is probably by design but I wanted to be sure.
Hmm. I'm not sure I follow that. Can you tell me step by step how to reproduce that with applications?
This is normal X11 behavior. It is just a little different that OS-X. In a terminal window, type some text and then highlight it with the mouse (button1). Then un-highlight it by clicking the mouse elsewhere in the terminal window (button 1). Then click mouse button 2, and the text you highlighted should automagically get typed into the terminal. This is normal copy-paste behavior in the X11 world. It's natural that the question would arise, when should this buffer be allowed to get copied to the OS-X buffer. Only when it's highlighted? or, whenever it is in the X11 paste buffer. This is what I was testing and describing in my post. Under the current implementation, the text gets copied when it is highlighted, but will not copy after you click to unhighlight it, even when it remains in the X11 paste buffer. This makes sense, because X11's copy/paste works the X11 way and OS-X's copy/paste works the Apple way.
I thought it would be useful for you to get this kind of feedback from someone not using quartz-wm.
John Koren wrote
This results in a error message " A clipboard manager is already running. pbproxy will not sync clipboard to pasteboard." being written in the system log.
If you are getting this message, pbproxy is still being launched somehow, even though it is not in your .xinitrc.
Or any other application that claims the CLIPBOARD_MANAGER atom (xclipboard, klipper, etc).
So, does this mean the message "pbproxy will not sync clipboard.." is a generic message that will be displayed in the startup logs if there is any conflict, even if pbproxy is not installed?
It basically means that the way that pbproxy works, it can clash with xclipboard and the like, so it doesn't try to fight with them if they are already running.
I agree but that is not the point I was trying to make. Jeremy had said that anybody who installed pbproxy should de-install it, because it is replaced by xpbproxy which is included in the new beta. These instructions about removing pbproxy weren't clear and I had to ask, and it is likely other testers still have pbproxy installed. So if somebody reports an error message that says something about pbproxy having trouble starting up, this indicates that both pbproxy and xpbproxy are on the same system, in error. Unless there's something else I'm not aware of. Dave
On Oct 11, 2008, at 16:57, Dave Ray wrote:
That's how I did it. I selected text in the terminal, hit command-C, switched to Textedit, hit command-P.
I assume you mean command-v. Did you try using the menu rather than the keyboard shortcut?
I should have explained what I did a little better.. Yes this is actually what I did. I opened a JPEG image in Gimp, selected all and copied using the menus from within Gimp.
You were good up to this point. That "puts" the image into CLIPBOARD. xpbproxy then copies that to pasteboard.
After this, I hit command-C.
And this is your problem. Now, you copied whatever in PRIMARY to the pasteboard.
Then I switch to the graphics app in OS-X, and typed command-P.
Again, I assume you mean command-v. command-c just copies what's in PRIMARY (selected). If you want what's in CLIPBOARD to be in pasteboard, that's handled automatically whenever CLIPBOARD is changed.
This is normal X11 behavior. It is just a little different that OS-X. In a terminal window, type some text and then highlight it with the mouse (button1). Then un-highlight it by clicking the mouse elsewhere in the terminal window (button 1). Then click mouse button 2, and the text you highlighted should automagically get typed into the terminal.
Right.
his is normal copy-paste behavior in the X11 world. It's natural that the question would arise, when should this buffer be allowed to get copied to the OS-X buffer. Only when it's highlighted? or, whenever it is in the X11 paste buffer. This is what I was testing and describing in my post.
We have no way to know when it's deselected. All edit->copy does is put what's in PRIMARY into pasteboard. There is nothing fancy going on behind the scenes at the X11 client level since we actually can't do anything at that level anyways.
Under the current implementation, the text gets copied when it is highlighted, but will not copy after you click to unhighlight it, even when it remains in the X11 paste buffer.
I highly doubt that is deterministic. There's no way to actually implement the behavior you described (unless it's due to a race condition)... and I just tested it out here and it works as expected.
I have downloaded this beta version. I have a wacom tablet and (the latest version of) gimp. In the test I have done, pressure optons are not working. Any hints? Thanks
On Oct 12, 2008, at 05:04, Alberto Mendoza wrote:
I have downloaded this beta version. I have a wacom tablet and (the latest version of) gimp. In the test I have done, pressure optons are not working.
Try out inkscape: http://inkscape.modevia.com/macosx-snap/Inkscape-19855-10.5-i386.dmg with the latest beta of X11: http://static.macosforge.org/xquartz/downloads/X11-2.3.2_beta1.pkg The new xinput configuration widget shows pressure, tilt, and position all responding correctly with my tablet. Also, what does 'xinput text #' do? You'll need to change # to an appropriate number for the input device based on 'xinput list'. Hopefully Jon or JiHO can chime in now, too. --Jeremy
I'm very sorry about my previous post. I did'nt change the tablet settings in Gimp. The Gimp now recognizes the existence of the tablet and all is working fine now. It also work's with Inkscape. I would like to thank all the people involved in the development of X11 Best regards, --Albert. On Oct 12, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Jeremy Huddleston wrote:
On Oct 12, 2008, at 05:04, Alberto Mendoza wrote:
I have downloaded this beta version. I have a wacom tablet and (the latest version of) gimp. In the test I have done, pressure optons are not working.
Try out inkscape: http://inkscape.modevia.com/macosx-snap/Inkscape-19855-10.5-i386.dmg with the latest beta of X11: http://static.macosforge.org/xquartz/downloads/X11-2.3.2_beta1.pkg
The new xinput configuration widget shows pressure, tilt, and position all responding correctly with my tablet.
Also, what does 'xinput text #' do? You'll need to change # to an appropriate number for the input device based on 'xinput list'.
Hopefully Jon or JiHO can chime in now, too.
--Jeremy
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On Oct 11, 2008, at 10:34, Dave Ray wrote:
I can copy text from xterm -> Textedit, but NOT Eterm -> Textedit. Perhaps I need to recompile that with a flag of some sort.
What happens if you have xterm open with text selected in eterm and you middle click in xterm?
I can copy graphics from Preview -> Gimp, Photoshop -> Gimp and Graphic Converter -> Gimp. I can NOT copt graphics from Gimp -> any graphics app in OS-X.
How are you doing this? cmd-c should not do that. Gimp does not put images into PRIMARY. You need to use CLIPBOARD (gimp's edit->copy).
To copy from an X11 app to OS-X, I select the text/graphic, then use command-C in the OS-X menu
Gimp doesn't put the image into PRIMARY. cmd-c just copies what's in PRIMARY to the pasteboard. You need to do edit->copy in gimp.
Another observation: If the selected text/graphic is selected, and then deselected, the normal X11 behavior is to keep the last selected item in the X11 clipboard buffer
I think you're confusing CLIPBOARD and PRIMARY.
, even without explicitly using keys to copy. This is because X11 doesn't have global copy/paste keys like OS-X. I found that if I deselect the selected item in X11, and then use command-C, the item is in the X11 buffer but not copied to the OS-X clipboard.
Nope. I just tried this. Selected text in urxvt, deselected, edit-
copy, then pasted into this Mail.app window to get what was selected pasted here (expected behavior).
This is probably by design but I wanted to be sure.
No, it is actually impossible to architect the behavior you are describing because we have no way to know that the text was deselected.
This results in a error message " A clipboard manager is already running. pbproxy will not sync clipboard to pasteboard." being written in the system log.
If you are getting this message, pbproxy is still being launched somehow, even though it is not in your .xinitrc.
Or any other application that claims the CLIPBOARD_MANAGER atom (xclipboard, klipper, etc).
So, does this mean the message "pbproxy will not sync clipboard.." is a generic message that will be displayed in the startup logs if there is any conflict, even if pbproxy is not installed?
xpbproxy will report that error message if it attempts to acquire the CLIPBOARD_MANAGER atom, but another X11 client has already acquired it. In other words, if you run xclipboard, pbproxy, klipper, gnome- clipboard-manager, etc before xpbproxy, you'll get that message and syncing from CLIPBOARD to PB will be disabled. --Jeremy
participants (4)
-
Alberto Mendoza
-
Dave Ray
-
George Peter Staplin
-
Jeremy Huddleston