December 2008 - Xquartz-dev - lists.macosforge.org

Re: [Xquartz-dev] xorg-server on Macports (works with Tiger)
by Peter Dyballa 20 Dec '08

20 Dec '08

Am 20.12.2008 um 21:04 schrieb Jeremy Huddleston: > What does X11->About X11 say the version is? XQuartz 2.3.2 (xorg-server 1.4.2-apple27) -- Greetings Pete UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.

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Re: [Xquartz-dev] xorg-server on Macports (works with Tiger)
by Peter Dyballa 20 Dec '08

20 Dec '08

Am 20.12.2008 um 21:04 schrieb Jeremy Huddleston: >> I want to have on one desktop or in one space my X11 desktop >> (because GNU Emacs as X client is faster than I can type and read >> and think and so *I* don't to have to wait until it's ready, which >> is the other way 'round with the Cocoa and Carbon variants). And I >> don't want to click around in Finder for some minutes until all my >> stuff is finally launched. And how do I pass arguments to it? Why do >> you want to steal the startup items from X11? > > What do you mean "steal the startup items"? Quartz has its startup items, X11 should have them, too. It's not appropriate to remove this feature from X11. > >> If your X product does not provide what other X products allow then >> something is wrong with your product. > > It does. What other "X products" are you talking about? For example CDE, Métisse, Looking Glass, Xview/OpenWindows, Cygwin, Humming Bird ... > >>> Since you're using blackbox, enable fullscreen, and it'll be exactly >>> like your blackbox experience on BSD. Or you can use the >>> Applications >>> menu to launch applications... >> >> No, I don't want to think of opening that menu half a dozen times >> every time I launch X11 to get my regular X11. X11 should not be >> castrated to some application (X client) launcher. It's a windowing >> system by its own hosted by Quartz, if that's the name of the Apple >> windowing system in Mac OS X with the Aqua look. > > In twm, you right click on the desktop and select the application to > start. In Gnome, you click the Applications menu and select the > application to launch. In KDE, you click on the K and select the > application to launch. How are any of those WMs any different? > Further, you're using blackbox by your own choice, so if you don't > like how you start applications in blackbox, then use something else. I don't remember having ever used such a stupid X system that could not launch some applications to prepare my desktop! Maybe I've deliberately chosen useful products ... OTOH, why is Quartz actively supporting their users' laziness by offering to fill in startup items? Every halfway capable Mac OS X user can click together the desktop. (Without the startup items component Mac OS X and its security updates might be more reliable and efficient: less can be more.) -- Greetings Pete Imbecility, n.: A kind of divine inspiration, or sacred fire affecting censorious critics of this dictionary. – Ambrose Bierce: _The Devil's Dictionary_

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Re: [Xquartz-dev] 2.3.2-rc4 full screen oddities
by Richard Tobin 20 Dec '08

20 Dec '08

> * at some points during the cmd-opt-a switching, the > character å gets deposited into whichever X11 window gets > focus. I reported this a few days ago: http://xquartz.macosforge.org/trac/ticket/209 I don't think it's new in rc4. -- Richard -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

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Re: [Xquartz-dev] xorg-server on Macports (works with Tiger)
by Peter Dyballa 20 Dec '08

20 Dec '08

Am 20.12.2008 um 14:00 schrieb Peter Dyballa: > Therefore I've seen these white rectangles! The white rectangles are part of the "sticky" ingredients of an X11 desktop. With blackbox WM I have two X11 desktops. I can change from one to the other and back and the white areas follow. In Quartz after some switches from full-screen X11 to Quartz and back finally this blackbox root menu appeared: You can see that parts of OmniWeb are wiped out. The Blackbox menu is unusable, i.e., I can select what I want and nothing happens – except one thing: I switch from Quartz to X11. This effect is In Quartz restricted to the virtual desktop I launched X11. When I open in X11 the blackbox menus the white blotch is partly rubbed out, i.e. the original X11 background becomes visible. But when I switch to Quartz it's all white again, in both worlds. The switches from Quartz to X11 seem to involve sending some text or control characters. My Emacsen report invalid input (unbound/ undefined key events) like M-å. Could be such controls are also sent to the blackbox WM "dock" that select menus. At least a flashing and an X11 beep are often heard when I switch from Quartz to X11. The generation of this white spot is independent of the way I leave a blackbox menu (clicking into its dock or clicking into the background). In X11 the scaled down Desktop Manager view of its virtual Quartz desktops appears although no Quartz application should sense the mouse cursor. The dock is not triggered to appear. -- Greetings Pete By filing this bug report you have challenged the honor of my family. Prepare to die!

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Re: [Xquartz-dev] xorg-server on Macports (works with Tiger)
by Peter Dyballa 20 Dec '08

20 Dec '08

Am 20.12.2008 um 11:26 schrieb Jeremy Huddleston: > It is working for me here on Tiger. Enable it in X11->Preferences-> >> > Clipboard if you're not uqing quartz-wm. If you are using quartz- > wm, you need to let quartz-wm handle the pasteboard since the Tiger > quartz-wm doesn't have a way to disable it. In an English environment this works, but not in German (or any other language, I presume). The preferences pane I see is like this: No Pasteboard, no Windows tabs. In an English environment I could enable pasteboard <-> primary synching (I think this is the proper spelling, not "syncing" which sounds spoken different), which works. -- Greetings Pete From error to error, one discovers the entire truth. - Sigmund Freud

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Re: [Xquartz-dev] xorg-server on Macports (works with Tiger)
by Peter Dyballa 20 Dec '08

20 Dec '08

On 10.12.2008, at 16:00, Jeremy Huddleston wrote: > /Applications/MacPorts/X11.app This application steals, when my ~/.xinitrc file is executed, the focus from the X client I gave it and passes it to next, then to the over-next, then to ... X client it launches. So a word that I input is divided over a handful of X clients. This is not the behaviour I want and this is not the behaviour I have set. -- Greetings Pete Think of XML as Lisp for COBOL programmers. - Tony-A (some guy on /.)

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Re: [Xquartz-dev] xorg-server on Macports (works with Tiger)
by Peter Dyballa 20 Dec '08

20 Dec '08

Am 20.12.2008 um 11:26 schrieb Jeremy Huddleston: >>> Further, you should not have your own ~/.xinitrc. >> >> How does X11 launch my Emacsen, gkrellm, sunclock, xterms? Why has >> X11 to be so different from common X11? > > Define "common X11", and what exactly is "so different" ? Common is that X11 will present me an usable desktop with some useful applications on it upon start or login. The difference is that your product is becoming a different thing, an obscure kind of launch or open command that works invisibly and launches an X server whenever someone tries to run an X client. I want to have on one desktop or in one space my X11 desktop (because GNU Emacs as X client is faster than I can type and read and think and so *I* don't to have to wait until it's ready, which is the other way 'round with the Cocoa and Carbon variants). And I don't want to click around in Finder for some minutes until all my stuff is finally launched. And how do I pass arguments to it? Why do you want to steal the startup items from X11? If your X product does not provide what other X products allow then something is wrong with your product. > > Since you're using blackbox, enable fullscreen, and it'll be exactly > like your blackbox experience on BSD. Or you can use the Applications > menu to launch applications... No, I don't want to think of opening that menu half a dozen times every time I launch X11 to get my regular X11. X11 should not be castrated to some application (X client) launcher. It's a windowing system by its own hosted by Quartz, if that's the name of the Apple windowing system in Mac OS X with the Aqua look. -- Greetings Pete Encryption, n.: A powerful algorithmic encoding technique employed in the creation of computer manuals.

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Re: [Xquartz-dev] Tiger fixes in 1.4.2-apple24 and 1.4.2-apple25, now 1.4.2-apple28
by Peter Dyballa 20 Dec '08

20 Dec '08

Jeremy, I think I've found the cause why these X servers from X11R7.4 won't launch! When debugging a problem in TeX I had to look into /tmp and found these directories: drwx------ 3 x11 wheel 102 16 Dez 20:16 launch-MAAEET drwx------ 3 pete wheel 102 16 Dez 17:18 launch-PBeS8k drwx------ 3 pete wheel 102 16 Dez 20:24 launch-mO2Grc drwx------ 3 x11 wheel 102 16 Dez 20:07 launch-osj5UZ Each contains one object inside: srwx------ 1 pete wheel 0 16 Dez 17:18 :0 Because the :0 socket is hidden it's not found ... This unique time I could launch X11R7.4's Xorg server might have succeeded when Launch Service was not up-to-date, or whatever (I double-clicked the X11.app in /Applications/Utilities; in the  menu bar the X11 menu was very sparse then. The About entry in the  menu showed a different version then XFree 4.4.0.) -- Greetings Pete A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

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Re: [Xquartz-dev] xorg-server on Macports (works with Tiger)
by Jeremy Huddleston 20 Dec '08

20 Dec '08

On Dec 19, 2008, at 14:18, Peter Dyballa wrote: > > Am 19.12.2008 um 20:09 schrieb Jeremy Huddleston: > >>>>> Copying from Aqua to X11 does not work with blackboxwm. The >>>>> other way 'round fails too! (I'm going now to bed.) >>>> >>>> What do you mean "copying from Aqua to X11"? I mentioned >>>> absolutely nothing about copying or Aqua. >>> >>> It was advertised that the X server now contains pbproxy and >>> quartz-wm should not try to handle copy&paste. I organised my >>> ~/.xinitrc file accordingly. When the X server does not support >>> copy&paste, what is it then good for? >> >> I don't understand your question. The X11 server does contain >> pbproxy, > > So why is it impossible to exchange text selections between Aqua and > X11? Aqua is a look. I think you mean with NSPasteboard. It is working for me here on Tiger. Enable it in X11->Preferences- >Clipboard if you're not uqing quartz-wm. If you are using quartz- wm, you need to let quartz-wm handle the pasteboard since the Tiger quartz-wm doesn't have a way to disable it. >> but it doesn't contain a windoe manager. > > That's clear. Therefore I am using blackbox. > >> Therefore if you use quartz-wm you should disable the server's >> pbproxy. > > (There is no visible means in the preferences pane.) (a), you're not using quartz-wm, so you should leave it enabled. (b), it's in X11->Preferences->Clipboard >> Further, you should not have your own ~/.xinitrc. > > How does X11 launch my Emacsen, gkrellm, sunclock, xterms? Why has > X11 to be so different from common X11? Define "common X11", and what exactly is "so different" ? Since you're using blackbox, enable fullscreen, and it'll be exactly like your blackbox experience on BSD. Or you can use the Applications menu to launch applications... --Jeremy

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Re: [Xquartz-dev] Xquartz-dev Digest, Vol 14, Issue 42
by Kyle Lucke 19 Dec '08

19 Dec '08

I'll second a request for this. This is exactly how I would like fullscreen mode to work. Having the standard title bar taking up space on my second display is the only thing that really ends up bugging me with 2.3.1. I don't remember doing anything special to make this work back in 10.4.x, I think that's just how it worked. My memory is admittedly a little fuzzy, though. Kyle Lucke > From: Timothy Goins <ohce86(a)kitcarson.net> > Date: December 19, 2008 1:23:52 PM CST > To: Jeremy Huddleston <jeremyhu(a)apple.com> > Cc: Developer talk about Xquartz <xquartz-dev(a)lists.macosforge.org> > Subject: Re: [Xquartz-dev] Cannot enter full screen mode > Reply-To: Developer talk about Xquartz <xquartz-dev(a)lists.macosforge.org > > > > > Thanks for not cleaning my clock for my making a comment but not yet > offering a solution. When I was running 10.4.x, I was using Apple's > stock X11.app, and mwm because of my AIX (before IBM went to the > CDE) background. I don't think my solution back then was as elegant > as the one you suggest, which I'll check out ASAP. Thanks. > > On Dec 19, 2008, at 12:14 PM, Jeremy Huddleston wrote: > >> That doesn't seem like a dumb response to me... It's quite >> interesting actually. Were you using Apple's stock X11.app or were >> you using XDarwin.app? >> >> This functionality could be hacked into the existing xorg-server >> (look in hw/xquartz/xpr/xprScreen.c for something like xprAddScreen >> or xprAddDisplay) ... you could just put an 'if(this is a display i >> want to exclude) continue;' into the look adding all the displays. >> >> I guess we could do something like another defaults option that is >> a list of displays to exlude somehow... >> >> On Dec 19, 2008, at 10:48, Timothy Goins wrote: >> >>> This (mine) has to be one of the dumbest responses ever. Still I >>> want Samad to know that back in '06 under 10.4.x I hooked up my >>> flat-screen TV to my MacBookPro and configured X to run full- >>> screen on the TV while my regular Apple desktop remained intact on >>> the laptop screen. In those days my window manager was mwm (Motif >>> that I compiled from source code). Coincidentally, yesterday I >>> started trying to remember how I did it so I could created the >>> same capability using my MacPro (10.5.6—XQuartz 2.2.2_rc4) and the >>> same TV. When I do (if it's still possible), I'll post my solution. >>> >>> On Dec 19, 2008, at 11:17 AM, Jeremy Huddleston wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 19, 2008, at 07:49, Samad Lotia wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ah, great! Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> I have an external monitor attached to the laptop. Is there >>>>> anyway I can tell X11.app to set the size and location of the >>>>> root window so that the root window covers one screen completely >>>>> but not the other? >>>> >>>> Sorry, no. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> X11-users mailing list (X11-users(a)lists.apple.com) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/x11-users/ohce86%40kitcarson.net >>>> >>>> This email sent to ohce86(a)kitcarson.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> X11-users mailing list (X11-users(a)lists.apple.com) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/x11-users/jeremyhu%40freedesktop.org >>> >>> This email sent to jeremyhu(a)freedesktop.org >> >

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